Grove Vale road narrowing

[kford]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I hardly need to point out that a reduction in car

> parking along this busy route will improve traffic

> flow. Indulgent motorists parallel parking is a

> major cause of obstruction for other motorists.

I agree. Doesn't need ?500k worth of 'improvements' to achieve this though - just a tub of yellow paint and a traffic warden.

[henryb]

>

> It's only reassonable criticism if you haven't

> just made it up. As it is, you did make it up, and

> it's wrong. So it's not reasonable criticism.

>

> Southwark's transport strategy is completely in

> line with the Mayor of London's strategy, and the

> alternatives are regularly and comprehensively

> considered.

Can you provide the details of the alternatives to the Grove Vale road narrowing plan Southwark looked at then, specifically the designs for a shared space?

[James Barber]

I met with council officers about this scheme yesterday.

They've since confirmed that of the 12 reported collissions on Grove Vale in the last 3 years, 3 considered to involve speed as a contributory factor - one being the fatality when the car hit the kerb and flipped.

The most expensive parts of this scheme are the raised treatments to slow vehicles down.

I'm still unconvinced that the annual traffic flow of Grove Vale being inconvenienced by negotiating the proposed raised roads outweighs on average part of the contribution to one crash every year. The fataliaty was such extreme driving that I really don't think its representative.

I say this taking into account the extra convenience of people crossing Grove Vale and how it would make such crossing easier for me but equally make cycling and beign a bus passenger much less comfortable. So again on balance I'd prefer the proposed raised road didn't happen and the money be used to make others parts of Southwark safer.

[ellabrunswick]

Has there been any news about this proposal? I emailed 'traffic orders' a month ago and was told that the scheme engineers would be in touch with me to discuss my query - but have not heard from them. Has anyone else?

[Loz]

James Barber Wrote:

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> I met with council officers about this scheme

> yesterday.

> They've since confirmed that of the 12 reported

> collissions on Grove Vale in the last 3 years, 3

> considered to involve speed as a contributory

> factor - one being the fatality when the car hit

> the kerb and flipped.

Wasn't that at about 5am in the morning with someone doing a completely ridiculous speed on an empty road? A bit dishonest to use that as justification for peak hour traffic management.

[Fudge]

Agree with Loz, the high speed car surely was a one off extreme incident. Road calming measures I wouldn't have thought would stop someone flying down the hill and losing control of their car....

I have just come back from having lunch outside the bakery - during the 30 mins I was there, there were a number of times when the traffic came to a complete standstill. The bus stopping at the bus stop, cars trying to overtake with buses coming towards them from the opposite direction, along with a large lorry delivering to the garden centre and a large lorry trying to get to the building yard at the back of the garden centre. Any narrowing of the road would surely add to these problems causing more problems.....this seems a daft ill thought out plan

[kford]

one being the fatality when the car hit

> the kerb and flipped.

Yep, this happened on an empty dark road at 5 in the morning, involving a driver who collided with... some traffic calming kerbing. That would almost be as spurious as Wiltshire council installing a speed camera on the basis of a fatality that involved a bloke throwing himself off a bridge onto the carriageway.

"The fataliaty was such extreme driving that I really don't think its representative."

Absolutely.

[Sporthuntor]

I understand that southwark council needs to cut ?50m from its budget. Find another 99 bonkers schemes like this and we are there - any more like this that you are aware of James?

[James Barber]

Hi Sporthuntfor,

I can't really respond to that without getting what many would consider overtly political!

The proposed scheme is due to imminently start. I'm sure in the round it will be ok but I can;t help but think other more dangerous and thus deserving places in Southwark should have such resources prioritised to them - it seems clear to me that the bland data needs to have outlyer incidents cleansed from it - such as the tragic 5am fatality.

[Loz]

Sporthuntor Wrote:

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> I understand that southwark council needs to cut

> ?50m from its budget. Find another 99 bonkers

> schemes like this and we are there - any more like

> this that you are aware of James?

Well the 'feed the middle class and rich kids' free school meals for all policy is a bit of a bonkers doozie. At least ?2m per year wasted.

[Emily]

Shoppers use cars, you know, so I suspect the traders trying to make a living in the shops and cafes in this area would almost certainly not support measures that make driving and parking even more insanely difficult than they are. Making parking impossibly destroys local shops and sends people to supermarkets etc where parking is provided. There are paint, hardware and furniture shops there!

[James Barber]

Hi emily,

The scheme will see an overall increase in car parking of 11-12 car parking spaces along Grove Vale.

I'm hopeful the proposed Controlled Parking Zone, if the consultation shows residents support it would result in significantly more parking locally. I've asked that it be consulted only working 11am-noon Mon-Fri so it maxmises local parking for residents and shops while reducing commuter parking. It would also work well in conjunction with the CPZ at Herne Hill which works noon-2pm so the same enforcement people could enforce both zones.

Hi Loz,

The universal free school meals for all 4-11 yearo ld kids in state schools in Southwark (even the thousands who live outside Southwark) will costs initially ?2M/year rising when all kids in receipt of this benefit to around ?4.5M/year.

[Huguenot]

Sometimes I don't think people understand these things.

The parking for local people isn't bad because of road restrictions, it's because numpties arrive at 7am, park the car, and don't come back until 7pm.

They're not shopping or even browsing. They're ripping off the area.

All hail the council ;-)

[kford]

Huguenot: "All hail the council"

Well, you can pay for it.

I'd rather the ?500k be spent elsewhere, like on schools.

[Huguenot]

I think the schools money has all been spent on free meals for rich kids?

[kford]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I think the schools money has all been spent on

> free meals for rich kids?

Ha! Fair point.

[Sporthuntor]

Getting weird when cash strapped labour council waste up to ?4.5million on upper/middle class school meals...understand it is to remove "stigma" of free meals. What a load of horse. Planet earth calling politicians...hello? Anyone? No? Thought not...

[bonaome]

Huguenot Wrote:

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>numpties arrive at 7am, park the car, and don't come back until 7pm.

>

Ahhh, so that's you standing there on a randomly sampled set of days large enough to give a representative data set, carefully recording the licence plates parked, noting their arrival and departure times and looking up the DVLA and insurance databases to cross match the data with the reported location at which the vehicles are kept. Very good work there.

[James Barber]

Hi bonaome,

As part of the Grove Vale scheme council contractors have been doing almost exactly that - apart from referencing the DVLA. Every hour every potential parking spot has been checked to see if cars pre 6am and post 7pm and what cars between those hours. From that its then reasonably clear which cars are residents, visitors, commuter/local workers.

The initial gut feeling is that 20-25% of the current day time parknig is commuter parking. Removing that would make residents lives and shops much easier to park.

[bonaome]

Thanks James. But you can't know that the 2 in 10 or so cars that are there all day aren't just those of residents who don't use their car everyday. I suppose that's the 'gut feel' part. May as well have just asked Hugenot and allowed the council contractors to be getting on with whatever we're paying them to do; unencumbered by having to speculate on people's parking habits.

[James Barber]

Hi Boaname,

the gut feel was from before the parking survey was started based on how many fre parking places outside commuter hours.

But it will up to residents to decide during the formal consultation whether they want a controlled parking zone or not.

When I received the parking survey results I'll make a point of posting them here.