Is Scottish Independence a good thing?

[eaglegray]

No, it's not a good thing. There is no possible way that Scotland and Scots would be better off in a totally independent country. I was born in Scotland but have been resident in Canada since I was a boy. I can't imagine why any Scot or anyone with Scottish connections would wish to identify themselves solely with Scotland and not Britain as a whole. I have a British passport, as well as a Canadian one, and that is what I want to keep.

The history of mutual achievement in the arts, in science and industry, in the export of democratic principles throughout the world , in the brotherhood of battle in two world wars. . . all these things and more have made Britain one of the greatest civilizations in history.

The greatness of Scotland is enhanced by its being a part of Britain. I am proud to be British, first, and Scottish second.

And remember, it was a Scotsman who wrote Rule Britannia. And furthermore, keep in mind that our current Queen Elizabeth is the direct descendant of James VI of Scotland (James I of England). The history of England and Scotland, their achievements, their economies, their cultures are too inextricably intertwined to make separation any benefit to either.

[Tarot]

Well said.

[Marmora Man]

An additional thought. A vote on independence for Scotland might lead to a break up the United Kingdom - so should all in the United Kingdom vote on the proposition as we all have an interest?

[Huguenot]

No, it's about self-determination. You can't let the Serbs make a decision on Kosovo.

[katie1997]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Alec John Moore Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

Seeing things from a perpetually anglo

> > centric perspective is the thing that pisses

> the

> > Scots off on a regular basis.

I smiled when I read this. I know quite a few English people now living in the Scottish Highlands and this is exactly what they say happens and they get pretty annoyed about it too!

However, most

> > intelligent Scots can overlook that innate

> > arrogance and will sensibly agree with you that

> > political and economic independence would be a

> > pointless waste of effort.

> I believe, and hope, the majority of Scots would

> not favour full independence. However, I do think

> Alex Salmond now has to call the referendum -

> deciding who will be eligible to vote will be an

> interesting problem.

Absolutely agree and I hope that any sort of referendum will prove that the majority of Scots do not favour this.

> Many many ex pat Scots of my acquaintance would

> probably vote in favour of independence on an

> emotional basis, their view of Scotland being

> clouded by a misty remembrance of the past - but

> they would not return to live in Scotland,

> independent or not. I'd call that the Connery

> Conundrum.

I'd call him something else but I'm trying to be polite this evening.

>

> Additionally, in the event of independence the

> contractual disputes about who owns what, whether

> it be oil in the North Sea, military bases,

> equipment and personnel, NHS hospitals, roads,

> rail and other infrastructure would just be mind

> boggling.

So sorry for 'fisking' but I also agree with this, all that expense and for what end exactly? I know so many Scots living in England and vice versa.

If the Scottish get to vote on whether to remain in the Union or not, I think the English should get to vote on whether to keep it too - no, in fact, they should get to vote on whether to keep us Scots in! :)

My personal opinion - the only good thing to come out of a break up of the Union would be a renegotiation of the Treaty and a chance to get out of the EU.

[Alec John Moore]

Hi katie1997, do you mean the reverse of my statement? i.e that English people in Scotland get pissed of by the Alba-centric perspective of Highlanders? This doesn't surprise me. In Ireland they would be known as "blow-ins". It's one of the reasons I love living in London. Being the son of a cockney mother and having produced 3 Londoner children I now consider myself to be a Londoner, despite being Scottish by birth. I feel that "London" would welcome me as such. I also think that this is why Scottish independence is unnecessary. I don't deny that racial memory is long but it is also selective. I remember hearing a Highlander on TV once identifying with the history of the oppression of the native North Americans when being asked about the Highland clearances.

[katie1997]

Hi AJM - yes, I did mean the reverse of your statement (eg English in Scotland) as well as the other non-reverse (?!), cannot think of the right word to describe it, (eg Scottish in Scotland)

London is very welcoming and it annoys me how much people can moan about it (and the English). You're spot on about selective memories too, I am sure that the Highland clearances were perpetuated by ... Scottish landowners? (no doubt someone will call me up on that if I am mistaken)!

Oh and that flipping Alex Salmond makes me (6)

[Huguenot]

Scottish independence as a stepping stone to withdrawal from the EU? That 's a new one.

Historically I guess if Scotland were to make trading ties with the UK weaker, they would naturally turn to France, so you'd imagine EU ties would be required to get stronger?

If that's the case it would need serious consideration. What part of the EU is it that you don't like? Human Rights? Common Market? Central bank? Foreigners in general?

[Frankito]

H, your question: Foreigners in general. Can we get a response on that one from Tarot?

[edgeleaf]

Good luck to them if they do.. but i'm pretty sure it wouldn't make them any better off. Their taxes would go up for one!

[castleofillusion]

I'm a Scot and I detest the idea of independence which I think is just that - an idea. Most people back home that I know who are for independence can't even justify it. They see it as draping the Saltire at the window and one-upping the English or generally like the idea of having more parliamentary power. However I don't think one of them could explain how they would continue to fund the higher education system, free prescriptions, bus passes, etc. Unemployment is high and I can't see Westminster being so generous with money if Scotland are so arrogant to assume that they can survive on industry alone (what industry?! oil? Until that runs out...). What I will say is that since I have moved down to London I have noticed that there is practically no news about Scotland, whereas in Scotland there is often news about England and of course Westminster, it being the hub of all dodgy dealings. I worked at the Scottish Government and see huge differences but that's a whole other story...

[mockney piers]

Nice comment piece from David Mitchell.

[Alan Medic]

Do you read in that article that he considers the British to be a sort of mongrel race with connections through family to different parts of the Kingdom without feeling especially at home in one part?

I've always considered the Scottish and the Irish to be quite similar and it made me wonder why the Scots would be so different to the Irish in not wanting Independence. Yet if you look at Irish history, the 1916 Rising was not at all well supported by the population. It wasn't until the 'English' executed its leaders that the path to actual Independence was born. If that hadn't happened then the Union Jack might well still be flying over Dublin today.

I doubt that Scottish qualification for a World Cup will have the same effect.

[mockney piers]

A sort of homogenous mongrel if that's possible.

One of the difficulties of trying to tease apart the genetic history of the British Isles, particularly in terms of Scots to Ireland and vice versa is that the genetic markers of pretty much everyone in the British Isles are basically the same so you can't really tell who went where within it.

Irish, Welsh, Scottish and English are geographical and cultural identities.

Genetically we're one big happy family*.

*ish, there are more hispanic markers in the atlantic fringe and more germanic markers in East Anglia, and most notably parts of eastern Scotland.

[mockney piers]

I partially agree with you about Ireland, but I think the main difference is that Scotland did really very very well out of Britain, and particularly empire, it's alwalys had a disproportionate representation among the generals, adventurers, entrepreneurs and politicians of Britain.

Plus it joined out of choice (mostly because it was bankrupt) rather than coercion.