Europe, Euroscepticism & the Big State

[Marmora Man]

StraferJack Wrote:

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It's perfectly possible to live unfettered under a "rigid umbrella" tho. Again, look to citizens of the us

The US is scarcely a rigid umbrella - they take the boundaries of federal responsibility and authority very seriously - and tend to resent Washington DC centrally imposed regulation.

[StraferJack]

They all spend dollars. I take your point however

But do you believe the EU is pushing much further than that? I know proposals get mooted... Such is the nature. But strategically you believe it is pushing much further?

[Marmora Man]

StraferJack Wrote:

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But do you believe the EU is pushing much further than that? I know proposals get mooted... Such is the nature. But strategically you believe it is pushing much further?

Yes - very much so. If you listen to the central bureaucrats, aspiring European politicians, the European parliament and other spokespersons there is a view that the EU is on a moving, "progressive" tramway toward an inevitable destination of a fully integrated entity with a single financial and political settlement.

There is no sense that there is any agreement to settle for the here and now.

I can be persuaded that, over time, there may well be increased integration but it is not something that should be forced by an artificial and accelerated timetable. National integration should take place gradually over timescales measured in generations, not a few short years.

[Huguenot]

I should have thought that the only people who don't like the word 'Europhile' are 'Europhobes'.

I haven't come across any association between 'europhile' and idiocy, and even if there were I wouldn't let the cynics win by trying to make their prejudice come true. I'm a europhile and I'm proud.

As for the wishes of some europoliticians wanting a tramway to an sovereign Europe, I don't really see the relevance. They can want whatever they want to want. Doesn't mean they'll get it. The BNP want a white Britain, but they won't get it.

The fact is that the European institutions portrayed by europhobes don't exist.

[Marmora Man]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I should have thought that the only people who

> don't like the word 'Europhile' are 'Europhobes'.

>

> I haven't come across any association between

> 'europhile' and idiocy, and even if there were I

> wouldn't let the cynics win by trying to make

> their prejudice come true. I'm a europhile and I'm

> proud.

>

> As for the wishes of some europoliticians wanting

> a tramway to an sovereign Europe, I don't really

> see the relevance. They can want whatever they

> want to want. Doesn't mean they'll get it. The BNP

> want a white Britain, but they won't get it.

>

> The fact is that the European institutions

> portrayed by europhobes don't exist.

I haven't succumbed to Daily Mail "itis" about the institutions an won't rise to that bait.

However, it is hard to argue that there hasn't been a steady move toward a United States of Europe since the early days of the six nation European Coal and Steel Confederation in the 50s to today's single currency 27 state (with four more candidate countries including Turkey) European Union.

The idea that it is "some" European politicians seeking ever closer union is weak - it is the majority. You're trying to underplay the momentum they generate.

Drawing comparisons with the political progress of the BNP is either careless or wicked - their progress or, more accurately, lack of progress toward their aims - which we would all applaud, is hardly a sound political parallel.