Enemy of the State (1998)

[a bloke]

I take your point *Bob*, and I agree that SPR is graphically very violent. But I cannot think of a WW2 film set in Europe, or anywhere else int he world for that matter,that gives a more visceral and realistic depiction of what that War must have been like. The first 30 minutes of the film is breathtaking and Spielberg cleverly captures the intensity and chaos captured by the Robert Capa photographs of the Normandy landings.

[*Bob*]

WW2 offers a broader spectrum of experience than WW1 with regards to movie-making. The definitive experience for a huge amount of soldiers during '1' was months of intense boredom sitting in a dirty hole, followed by being mown down after a short walk - which does not make for a great movie experience. Which probably explains why the more successful films about 1 take a more tangential line - say, about pacifism. Or zone-in on a particular aspect which offers a little more - such as aerial combat.

By contrast you could make countless films 'about' 2 without a shot ever being fired.

I like SPR which has a lot to commend it, but it has set this bar where apparently you're not watching a 'proper' war film unless someone's throwing a bucket of entrails around the set or seeing the back of someone's head fall off every twenty minutes!

[a bloke]

Good point about WW1, but I'm sure a clever and creative director could make the trench experience into a stimulating, interesting and watchable film. Someone like Danny Boyle for instance. He did this with 127 hours, which essentially was a film about a bloke trapped in a cave.

[Jeremy]

a bloke Wrote:

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> On the subject of Korean films, one very strange

> but very good martial arts film I once saw was

> called 'Old Boy'.

* smacks forehead * ... it's not a martial arts film.

At least it is Korean, though.

[a bloke]

South Korean to be precise.

[Jeremy]

It is a fine film indeed.

[david_carnell]

Back to Seagal, the urban myth (or not) has always been that his career was essentially a bet by his agent, Michael Ovitz, with another studio exec that he "could make anyone a star" and chose his akido instructor (Seagal) as the project.

Whilst the guy looks a bit of a loser these days I still wouldn't want to mess with a certified 7th dan in akido who owned his own dojo and taught CIA agents.

And there already are definitive WW1 films - just not all of them have become that "big". The two versions of All Quiet on the Western Front would be up there (although really only the original b&w 1930s one) along with the Blue Max. Under the radar, worth looking at "La Grande Illusion" and "Black and White in Colour". But Bob is correct for the general reasons why WW2 is much more suitable for great cinema.

[a bloke]

On reflection I'm not sure if you are right about 'Old Boy' not being a martial arts film Jeremy. There are a hell of a lot of fight scenes in it. Does this not qualify it as being in the martial arts genre?

[mockney piers]

Actually I didn't like SPR at all.

Apart from two stomach clenching actions scenes which admittedly are handled brilliantly, the rest of the film felt hammy. It was much more the successor of some of the films made during world war two that betrayed their stage origins like The Eve of St Mark than it was a modern war film.

Mind you they got it absolutely right on Band of Brothers, I imagine having some of the original soldiers and Stephen Ambrose as consultants on set helped a great deal with that.

[*Bob*]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> And there already are definitive WW1 films

Paths of Glory?

[a bloke]

'Band of Brothers' was a superb series, as was 'The Pacific'.

[mockney piers]

Has anybody seen Windtalkers? I challenge anybody to name a worse war film or worse acting than Nicholas Cage in that one.

Although admittedly Captain Correli's Mandolin and Nicholas Cage once again both come close.

[mockney piers]

Oooh, oooh, The Rock. Quality action film.

[mockney piers]

Rumour has it that Clement and Le Frenais of Likely Lads and Auf Wiedersehen Pet fame rescued the script for The Rock, and that they are uncredited rescuers of quite a number of Hollywood scripts.

I watched their Killing Bono the other day. It passed the time adequately but they didn't recapture their Commitments magic.

I'm digressing again aren't I.

[david_carnell]

You are Piers - but that's ok.

And as for the Rock - Nic Cage again who is appearing on this thread with some regularity - is hilariously camp and silly but also has Ed Harris who rescues most films. But also Michael Biehn who doesn't.

"Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"

And *Bob* - how can you overlook Mel Gibson in Gallipoli?! Run!

[*Bob*]

The Rock.

I mean, really.. The Rock. There's nothing more to say, is there?

[Jeremy]

a bloke Wrote:

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> On reflection I'm not sure if you are right about

> 'Old Boy' not being a martial arts film Jeremy.

> There are a hell of a lot of fight scenes in it.

> Does this not qualify it as being in the martial

> arts genre?

Fighting isn't the same thing as martial arts...

[a bloke]

I'm not sure anymore whether to post about war films, action films or martial arts films, so I'll do all three and then some:

Best War film : 'Platoon'.

Best Action film: 'Terminator 2'

Best Martial Arts film: 'Enter the Dragon' (though I have to give a nod towards 'Blade' which I thought had some good martial arts set pieces)

Best Thriller: Marathon Man

Best Gangster film: 'Donnie Brasco'. (very underrated and based on a true story)

Best Horror: 'The Shining'.

[a bloke]

Sorry missed your post Jeremy. Martial arts and fighting are one in the same.....in my opinion that is.

[david_carnell]

I'd go for:

Best War film : Apocalypse Now.

Best Action film: possibly Heat

Best Martial Arts film: 36th Chamber of Shaolin

Best Thriller: Usual Suspects....maybe

Best Gangster film: has to be Godfather I & II

Best Horror: Halloween

[Otta]

I'm with *bob* on The Rock I'm afraid.

[Otta]

I quite enjoyed Blade 1 and 2, can't remember much about the third. Also enjoyed "dragon" the Bruce Lee story, staring Jason Scott Lee (no relation) as Bruce.

[a bloke]

Sh1t...forgot about Apocalypse Now.

As epic as the Godfather trilogy is, I always thought Donnie Brasco captured the 'street level' type of Mafia life that the Godfather doesn't really represent. Also, it's from the viewpoint of an outsider, an undercover cop, which adds a different twist to it.

[Jeremy]

a bloke Wrote:

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> Sorry missed your post Jeremy. Martial arts and

> fighting are one in the same.....in my opinion

> that is.

This could be a whole new thread in it's own right!

[maxxi]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> maxxi Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Very true - The Ong-Bak films and Warrior King

> > (Tom-Yum-Goong) are huuugely entertaining for

> > anyone reared on Big Boss, Fist of Fury etc.

>

> * smacks forehead * ... those films are Thai, not

> Korean.

Quite right - I was lazily and ignorantly following Fabricio's post and thought he was referring to the current/recent slew of martial arts films that seemed to follow the themes/styles of older HK productions. Have to admit though that I am not aware of a similar group of Korean films so perhaps you could tell me what they are?

*smacks forehead and waits*.

Also - now we've established their true provenmance - am surprised nobody else feels Tony Jaa's efforts worthy of further mention.