Enemy of the State (1998)

[Jeremy]

maxxi Wrote:

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> Have to admit though that I am not aware of a similar group of Korean films

> so perhaps you could tell me what they are?

I'm afraid I don't know either. I was assuming Fabricio had some kind of nerdy in-depth knowledge of martial arts movies.

Ong Bak is a good call though, regardless of origin.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Best War film : Went the day well/Colditz

Best Action film: Three Days of the Condor

Best Martial Arts film: Karate Kid I

Best Thriller: Day of the Jackal

Best Gangster film: The Long Good Friday/Get Carter

Best Horror: The Wicker Man

[Fabricio the Guido]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrBWHQtvmgE&feature=player_embedded

I supposed the issue with Old Boy and (Taekukgi) is whether they are purely martial arts films. The vengence films are also are thriller but cross into other genres.

[Fabricio the Guido]

Enjoy .....

[Alec John Moore]

Seven Samurai

Great story weaving many themes around the samurai code and class difference in medieval Japan. Honour, duty, male bravado, heroism, bravery, stunning, and believable, martial arts skill and amazing battle scenes. Tragedy, love interest, humour. I must watch it again.

[Jeremy]

Fabricio the Guido Wrote:

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> I supposed the issue with Old Boy and (Taekukgi)

> is whether they are purely martial arts films.

I still maintain that Oldboy (good as it is) is not even partially a martial arts film.

A martial art is (or is rooted in) a codified/traditonal system of hand-to-hand combat. Oldboy features crude brawling, learned by shadowboxing and punching the wall.

[Fabricio the Guido]

Martial art ingredients ( feel free to add further points)

1. Traditional principles of martial arts, philosophy and techniques, monkey, dragon, shoalin monks, bushido,samurai, ninja.

2. Weapons: swords, blades, assorted objects used to inflict pain and death, but excluding guns, so a yakuza film with no guns might be included.

3. Plotlines : revenge, training / culminating in a a final showdown. (KIll BILL!)

Old Boy has all three elements as the fight scenes included a mix of hand to hand combat and brawling.

[northlondoner]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> Has anybody seen Windtalkers? I challenge anybody

> to name a worse war film or worse acting than

> Nicholas Cage in that one.

>

> Although admittedly Captain Correli's Mandolin and

> Nicholas Cage once again both come close.

I can trump that. The modern remake of Wicker Man featured some of the worst acting ever committed to celluloid ... chief culprit .... Nicholas Cage. Most ludicrous scene must have been Cage slugging Cathy Bates..in a bear suit.

[Fabricio the Guido]

Windtalkers was indeed pretty awful. N cage is a bit hit and miss with the acting job.

[mockney piers]

In all fairness cage can be ok, especially in high camp mode, and occasionally actually manages to act well, but he does choose some shocking titles, and when he's miscast it's usually frighteningly bad.

[david_carnell]

He is certainly an actor who features at each end of the spectrum

Good

Raising Arizona

Leaving Las Vegas

Bad Lieutenant

Moonstruck

Bringing out the dead

Bad

Windtalkers

8mm

Ghost Rider

Wickerman

Captain Corelli's Mandolin

Who the hell knows

The Rock

Con Air

[mockney piers]

I'm actually quite partial to the utterly daft National Treasure films, call it a guilty pleasure and file under who the hell knows.

[mockney piers]

ooh and and Face Off to the bad.

[*Bob*]

Basically he's doing a Michael Caine.. the desire to 'do good work' seems to be overridden by the desire to keep working, stay busy, take what's offered and get paid.

I think he'll have a critical renaissance at some point, when he finally winds-up in something decent - probably in supporting rather than leading, as Caine does now.

[mockney piers]

Though Educating Rita hasn't aged especially well (Both lead performance's are great, it just doesn't ring so true any more).

Little Voice is marvellous though.

[*Bob*]

Rita really feels like an adaptation from stage when you see it now. The working class life / student life thing is done in such broad strokes it's all a bit risible.

No-one sits on lawns and earnestly discusses the book they just did in class. They go to pound a pint nights and come home with traffic cones on their heads.

[mockney piers]

It is all a bit "yes poor poeple are terribly gauche you know, but give them a bit Tolstoy and the results are quite encouraging, they even attire themselves in appropriately comfortable accoutrements. I wouldn't give them the vote or anything, but it stops them puking on one's shoes of a stroll down Leamington High Street. What's that, they have the vote, well I never..."

[*Bob*]

There's also a (student) character in it called 'Tiger'.. 'nuff said.

[mockney piers]

It's back on stage as it goes. I saw the writer barking on about how relevant it still is and i just thought 'hmmm, not so much'

[Otta]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> He is certainly an actor who features at each end

> of the spectrum

>

> Good

> Raising Arizona

> Leaving Las Vegas

> Bad Lieutenant

> Moonstruck

> Bringing out the dead

>

> Bad

> Windtalkers

> 8mm

> Ghost Rider

> Wickerman

> Captain Corelli's Mandolin

>

> Who the hell knows

> The Rock

> Con Air

Agree with most of that, but I thought 8mm was a good film.

[red devil]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> It's back on stage as it goes. I saw the writer

> barking on about how relevant it still is and i

> just thought 'hmmm, not so much'

it might become relevant again once the effect of the ?9k a year fees kick-in...