Weaning question

[Fidgetsmum]

Hi. So, further to my recent post, I've bought some formula and the boy had it in his baby rice and fruit puree this morning and it all went well. I made up a beaker full as that was easiest this morning but we didn't use it all in his breakfast. It's been in the fridge, in the beaker, ever since.

Can I use it in his tea tonight? I would presume I can't keep it any longer, but the instructions imply use it immediately, or else! But I know that people make up bottles and take them on days out? Or did I dream that?

He's still being bf so this is just for his baby rice. Thanks!

[Pickle]

My expertise go no further than "I did it with my kids, and they've survived so far"... but IMO that would be fine. It's been in the fridge, and I assume you made it up correctly with scalding water this morning? In which case no worries at all. I wouldn't keep it any longer than 24 hours though.

Seems a bit of a waste to buy powdered formula to use such a small quantity though? With my 2nd (where I couldn't be bothered expressing) I went straight to the baby porridge type cereals that have milk powder included, so you just add water.

[Fidgetsmum]

Oooooh I didn't know about this porridge stuff... shall look into it as yes, it is a faff. I made it as per instructions (boil kettle, let it cool for 30 mins, mix powder into water etcetcetc...). Reminded me why I prefer breastfeeding - am too lazy for all the faff!

[Fuschia]

In terms of formula safety the important thing is to include the scalding stage.. if you are unable to make the milk fresh as per the official advice then the recommended fallback (as per Food Standards Agency) is to keep hot water in a flask, or to chill the made up formula and store it in the fridge for a short time.

Ironically, what is not recommended at all ever is to make milk up with cooled boiled water ... but it seems to be so common. I really don't understand why people do that ...but that's the little bee I have in my bonnet (work colleague had her grand daughter seriously ill with gastro enteritis that was linked to formula so I do harp on about it rather)

Sorry to hijack your thread!!

[Pickle]

There are lots of different ones, suitable from 6ish months from memory (it's been a while!). My babies preferred them to baby rice, and you can mix fruit etc. into it just as you would with the rice.

[Pickle]

There are lots of different ones, suitable from 6ish months from memory (it's been a while!). My babies preferred them to baby rice, and you can mix fruit etc. into it just as you would with the rice.

[Fuschia]

You could use a little carton, but it's pricey

PS Even with the cereal with milk added I think I would make it up with hot water and let it cool

[Fidgetsmum]

The box definitely says boil kettle, let it cool for 30 mins, then make it up with the powder. The water is still very hot but obviously not just boiled... should I be ignoring the instructions on the box - am I missing something?

[Fuschia]

No, that's right FM. That's HOT water at the recommended temp to kill any nasty bacteria in the powder.

COOLED boiled water is pretty much cold.. you know you see people with a bottle prefilled with water, topping it with powder from a special little pot? Boiling the water but then using it cold sort of assumes the dangerous bacteria are in the water supply, as opposed to the formula powder. I think there is still a belief the powder is 'sterile'

[Mellors]

I confess I always made mine in the past by adding a bit of boiling water straight from the kettle, shaking it then topping up to the right level with cold water straight from the tap. Is that evil?

Totally agree that bf is a million times less faff!

[Fuschia]

Mellors Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I confess I always made mine in the past by adding

> a bit of boiling water straight from the kettle,

> shaking it then topping up to the right level with

> cold water straight from the tap.

Probably safer than the cooled boiled water option

At least you put hot water on the powder!

[Fidgetsmum]

Okey dokes. Think I've got the hang of it. I got a few cartons as emergency measures in case I completely messed up making it from scratch and young boyfidget got upset - but all was well.

Thanks everyone. Again!

[LauraHW]

For past 2 months I've been making formula up using cold tap water on the basis that my 11 mo drinks water straight from tap and we don't sterilise anymore. Is this horribly neglectful of me??

[Fuschia]

There have been done very high profile cases with contaminated powder, Laura

I tend to think of it along the lines of advice to cook chicken thoroughly

I think if your bottles aren't sterilised but washed in the dishwasher and you wash your own hands thoroughly before doing the prep then the chances of anything nasty getting into the feed are slim ... But if there can be factory contamination of the powder with dangerous bacteria then that mIght be too much of a risk for you

I think it's a question of informed consent though

There is just so much confusion ... Doesn't help

[Saila]

if you put boiling water on formula powder you just destroy all the proteins (above 60/70 degrees?)

so no real point in drinking it if there's no good stuff in it

as for the high profile cases re the nasty bacteria that only dies at 70 degress... they're just not htat high profile. i have never come across any from the UK and considering 97% of babies are fed formula... i just take that risk rather than destroy the proteins in the milk powder

but it's everyone's individual decision of course

[Fidgetsmum]

Of course, it's contamination risk from the factory, not the water. I geddit now.

[Fuschia]

I presume when the food standards agency did all thd microbiological testing to determine the safest way they took into account the nutritional value of thd made up feed

What makes you think heat destroys protein, saila?

Most protein is cooked before eating - meat, fish, eggs..

If you drink hot milk it has the same nutritional value as cold, surely

I would bD interested to see where you got that information from

[Fuschia]

Not that I am a nutritionist, of course but I hVe looked very closely at the FSa info and research and there certainly wAs no reference to hot water destroying the protein in the milk

[Fuschia]

Just had a quick google

If you actually boil cows milk for several minutes the proteins start to denature .. This actually makes them

More digestible

Baby formula has already been ultra heat treated at several stages in the manufacturing process

I think you are worrying unnecessarily saila, thinking it best not to follow the preparation advice because of an unfounded fear

I know this is a bit of a diversion but I find it really fascinating, the way that people respond to health information

[Saila]

Fuschia - it's basic biology that water above a certain temperature denatures proteins.

formula powder is very carefully constructed and the levels of the fats and proteins are vital for a growing baby. If you start destroying some of the protein content, the baby is not getting the levels that have been recommended.

If it wasn't an issue, the instructions wouldn't specifically say NOT boiling water but 72 degrees (or whatever it is) because at this temperature you just about destroy that one bacteria, that one VERY RARE bacteria, that they have to mention to cover their backs... Instead it would just say "add boiling water"

What they dont do is inform you WHY they have this '72 degrees' as an insturction, cos most mums would then understand that the risk of the VERY RARE bacteria probalby doesn't out weigh the fact you're destroying a number of proteins in teh milk if you add boiling water.

EDIT to say - the action of boiling is to remove the bacteria from the water - the majority of bacteria during the making process is in teh tap water - not from the factory. there's just this REALLY rare one that they have to talk about so they dont get sued. But with NO incidents in the UK - should we realy be concerned? should we really sacrifice the specific level of proteins for this one very small risk?

[Fuschia]

The advice is not to use boiling water though

Water cooled for up to 30ons will be at the right temp

There is no evidence that this affects thd nutritional quality of the feed at all

In fact I think if you delve into the production of the formula it goes through several

Stages make the cows milk proteins more digestible

[Fuschia]

This is the Fsa research into attitudes to milk prep and revised advice

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/powderinfantform.pdf

Fascinating!

[Saila]

>The advice is not to use boiling water though

... exactly....

1) you're meant to boil the water to destroy the many many many bacteria that are in tap water THEN

2) let it stand until it cools to approx 72 degrees (?) cos this is hot enough to kill that one bacteria but cool enough not to destroy the proteins

plus loads of mums make up their feeds in a perfect breeding ground for bacteria (i.e. infant formula in warm milk) and then reheat it later in the day!! - makes no sense to me cos any contamination from the bottle or milk powder just grows and grows.... it's a breeding ground right there.

taking all the info on board (cos there's no clear answer) i personally boil the water (removing the bacteria from the tap water) after i make up a feed. Then use that water for the next feed. and so on. I've ignored the likelihood of that one bacteria that dies at 72 cos life's too short and it's just too unlikely and too ridiculous to get up an hour before you make a feed to watch water cool to 72 degrees...

anyway - i'm going to watch glastonbury now and smile that i'm not there!

Fuschia - the advice is not to use boiling hot water BECAUSE it destroys the proteins... blimey.... - have i said that before???! why on earth do they say wait for it to cool. Does that make sense?

[Fuschia]

There's a few bacteria that are a risk within the formula

Big yes, follow the advice and you minimise the risk of making the baby I'll

Deciding not to follow that advice because you think using hot water might destroy the proteins seems a bit muddled to me... Given that the advice is based on solid research

But I confess I am a bit OCD on the science of these thIngs and spend far too much time looking into it all

Definitely what that Fsa research calls a 'purist' I guess!

[Moos]

Either my brain is scrambled, which is possible, or Saila is agreeing with you wrt using hot (not boiling) water, Fuschia. She's just explained why it should be hot but not boiling.