RE:parking on Melbourne grove....is it free??

[apmuso]

Bobby P - I can guarantee you there is a majority of residents on the station side of Melbourne Grove who would back CPZs - I speak to my neighbours. It's not small-mindedness to want to try to change the commuting habits of people from outside ED. Why should we not want to keep our streets for ourselves? People who drive in from miles around and park outside my house for ten hours a day are the problem. It's not a compromise of urban living to want to park somewhere within 300/400 yards of one's house. That's a nonsense if you think so. And why wouldn't you want to try to make your urban existence better? I'm guessing you haven't tried unloading a car full of toddlers and shopping on a street where there's nowhere to even stop let alone park. I find the notion that CPZs are the thin end of the wedge and we're on a slippery slope if we have them risible. I want a better life for everyone in East Dulwich. I wouldn't be at all happy if the problem was just shifted a few streets away. It's shifting the mindset of lazy commuters that's the issue. If we make parking more problematic for them, then our roads are less congested for us all.

[James Barber]

A consultation on whether residents within the East Dulwich ward area bounded by Melbourne Grove, East Dulwich Grove and Grove vale and mirror image area the other side of Grove Vale in South Camberwell ward is planned for this Autumn.

The parking stress survey took place in May and the results are being analysed.

Lots of reasons for and against.

I've asked that residents be asked about controlled parking zone operating 11am-noon Mon-Fri. That would kill commuter parking which anecdotally feels like the cause of the problem but minimise impact on residents, visitors and local shop customers.

At the same a review of parking is taking place and it looks like any implimented CPZ could see my request for some yellow and double yellow lines removed espeically from the northern end of Melbourne Grove.

[sophiesofa]

James, will only the residents of those roads be asked for their opinion? I believe if it is given the thumbs up by them and the council then the problem will just shift along a few roads until most of ED is permitted. PLEASE PLEASE NO!

> ... or maybe, at the weekends, residents go away

> or are more likely to be out and about in

> sufficient numbers to allow for you to find a

> space or two.

>

Yep, that's what happens on my road - it's quieter at the weekend as people like to go away for the day or weekend.

I just don't understand why people think they can choose to live by the station then complain about parking - it's inevitable. I live on Lordship Lane, sometimes it's a bit noisy and I knew I'd have to park on a neighbouring round but I knew that when I looked round! Sorry for the mini rant I feel really passionately that permit parking is evil and will affect all ED residents.

[sophiesofa]

mastershake Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i just had my parents to visit, to the corner of

> melbourne grove/ashbourne area mentioned above.

>

> the nearest parking space was 10 minutes' walk

> away. surely this is a problem?

If there were permits you may find yourself having to drive/get a bus/train to queue up to get them a one day visiting permit from an office that is only open during office hours - would you prefer that? That's what I used to have to do in greenwich; of course I don't know the specifics of the scheme that would be put in place here.

[James Barber]

Hi Sophiesofa,

Parking permits are available online and via the post and telephone. The parking office you inferred has been closed for many months.

The parking problem appears to have become much worse since the congestion charging zone was introduced and to be fair to not many people predicted that was coming - and jolly effective it has been) - and therefore the parking near stations outside the CCZ would see more passengers.

Herne Hill area did see some scope creep but their is a limit to how far people will park and walk and instead use a more local statino to where they live.

[sophiesofa]

I'm glad that Greenwich have moved on!

So if there will be some creep as in Herne Hill will residents within say a 15 minute walk of the station be included in any consultation? I hope so, as that would include me.

Out of interest what do you personally think should be done, if anything?

[first mate]

In addition to all the other objections, owning a car is expensive enough already, what with insurance and petrol hikes. Permits may push ownership out altogether for some people. In order to police the controlled zones you'll need more traffic wardens zipping around in their dinky little cars. How much extra funding will all that need?

As others have said getting controlled parking just pushes the problem out to another area and enables permit creep. I really hope people think properly about this and not just about the short term gains for themselves.

[trizza]

The scope of the area around the station where the consultation takes place is going to be very interesting. Even if it's just 10 mins walk from the station then you are talking about quite a wide area - at least 1/2 a mile around the station?

[BrandNewGuy]

Indeed - the East Dulwich Grove/Melbourne Grove crossroads which forms the boundary of the proposed zone is at most five minutes' walk from the station. I walk quite briskly and reckon three will do it...

[james84]

Surely it is up to residents in this area to decide if they want to pay for controlled parking or not? If it is introduced and tehre is a knock on effect to surrounding areas as I suspect there would be, then the next area would have a consultation and again it would be there choice to introduce a CPZ or not and so on.

[apmuso]

I agree - the consultation needs to be inclusive of all those streets affected - either directly by the cpz or indirectly by any 'creep'. Although as Councillor Barber intimated: 'Herne Hill area did see some scope creep but their (sic) is a limit to how far people will park and walk and instead use a more local station to where they live.'

That's surely the point isn't it? If I'm forced to park outside someone else's house on Ashbourne or Chesterfield, where are they parking? If the proposed 11-noon enforcement is introduced, with one fell swoop those commuters who drive, park in our neck of the woods and then take the train from here, will be forced to take the train from further out.

I think it could really benefit us all. Platforms and trains will be less congested and the roads and parking will be slightly more pleasant. What's not to love.....?!!

[BrandNewGuy]

Oh great - "mission creep", as I suggested before. No thanks.

[BrandNewGuy]

apmuso, I suspect many of those (as yet unknown numbers) who "park in our neck of the woods" might not be coming from miles away but are from the other end of East Dulwich and are commuters who can't be a*sed to walk a bit further or take a bus to the station. On a similar theme, I'm amazed at how many people get picked up from the station - and not just late at night. Walk home or get a bus, you lazy sods!

And unfortunate as it may seem, they're not "our streets" and phrases such as "keep our streets for ourselves" show a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes public space. Just IMHO of course...

[apmuso]

So hang on - let me get this straight. What you're saying is that it could also be lazy fellow East Dulwichians who might be forced to take the bus or walk to get to the station, making it more more possible for the residents of Melbourne, Derwent and Elsie etc to park in 'our streets', thus reclaiming 'our streets for ourselves'. Not sure I've 'fundamentally misunderstood' anything. IMHO you understand.

[Penguin68]

I suspect that if commuters are an issue, then they are coming to ED station to reduce their travel costs by coming in at a 'lower' zone - if they can't do that then they will simply access the trains at earlier stations - so the 'trains less congested' claim will be simply rubbish - the difference being that rather than having them on the same platform as you to contest space on the train, they will already be on the train (and the seats)and you will have less chance to contest. Why on earth do you think that making parking less easy around ED will stop people going to work by train?

And as for commuters who can't be a*sed to walk a bit further - as you get older and frailer you might find that long hikes to the station become less appealing - or should use of ED station only be available to the very local or the fit?

If the turkeys in Melbourne Grove vote for Christmas then soon it will come to all parts of ED, and all our necks will be on the seasonal block (except mine, as I have off street parking for 3 cars and my property value will soar, so thanks, turkeys).

[BrandNewGuy]

No, I said "as yet unknown numbers" because I'm not convinced of the extent of the 'problem'. And I don't think we should necessarily "force" lazy people to do anything.

[apmuso]

Penguin68 - just as long as you're alright then. Until you've experienced it, not sure you can appreciate how frustrating it can be for almost everyone I speak with locally.

Fair point on the train issue though.

[BrandNewGuy]

Penguin68, I commute from and to ED station every weekday and there are precious few "older or frailer" commuters. In fact, as someone born in the 60s, I sometimes feel old when surrounded by such young folk on the platform ;-)

[Penguin68]

Until you've experienced it, not sure you can appreciate how frustrating it can be for almost everyone I speak with locally.

As I have lived in Chelsea (resident's parking), Prince of Wales Drive, Battersea (b all parking); near Clapham North tube station (ditto) - all of which have involved finding space somewhere and then walking back, often carrying heavy bags etc., sometimes from many streets away (I still, genuinely, have nightmares about parking in Chelsea so far away from my home that I lost my car) I do know exactly what you are talking about - I moved to ED partly to escape that problem with off-street parking.

However the great difference between Chelsea and Battersea/ Clapham was that without residents parking in the last 2 I always eventually found somewhere, and didn't have to get out by 8.00 to move the car to somewhere else. It was resident's parking in Chelsea which was the complete (see above) nightmare.

I have experienced the full range of horrors, if I lived in Melbourne Grove I wouldn't want resident's parking with all that that brings (narrow zones, hiked fees, constant controlled area creep).

[apmuso]

But this is a proposed 11-noon metering system - some way removed from the schemes you describe elsewhere. Everyone is free to park for a limited period at all other times. I absolutely understand about the horrors of exclusive residents' parking as in Fulham and Chelsea etc - but this is a scheme fundamentally to stop commuter parking near the station. It has little to no impact on anyone else.

[BrandNewGuy]

... apart from, if the problem is as big as you say, on those who live adjacent to the zone.

[garnwba]

Well said apmuso - and i am in total agreement that in Melbourne Grove a strong majority will be in favour of introducing the scheme. As i suspect will the council when they see the potential revenues....

Once the scheme is introduced (which we all know it will be) it will be interesting to see how many of the strong against posters on this thread remain that way if they are unfortunate enough to get a knock on effect and face the same issues us Melbourne Grove residents do now.....

[BrandNewGuy]

garwba: how about if a strong majority of those affected by any knock-on voted against it. How would you feel then?

[garnwba]

i think then we can have a balanced discussion. I have absolutely no desire to "potentially" solve the problem on my doorstep at the detriment to my fellow ed neighbours 3 roads down. Reason being i would not want people to go through the issues that we face

On the flip side though, the people who are outside the proposed zone at the moment and do not understand or face the issues we do, can't hide behind "you live near a station so you should expect it" argument as that is just nonsense.

There needs to be some appreciation that it is a major issue for us and one that we want to try and tackle

[BrandNewGuy]

We live very near two schools, which causes problems with parking, dropping off and congestion, but we expect it. The schools were there when we moved here 15 years ago and, even though the problems have got worse over that time, I don't expect anyone else to have to deal with it.