Can a left wing Government solve a debt crisis?

[Mick Mac]

Following on from a debate in the Drawing Room regarding the difficulties in the US on it's ability to meet it's debt obligations....

Can a left wing or socialist minded government ever solve a finanical crisis or get a country out of a recession - Is there much precedent for this ?

Or is there more precedent for a left wing government taking the tax and spend approach that leads to increasing debt.

[Huguenot]

Well, only 11% of US debt was created by left wing government investing in social programs.

80% was by right wing governments going to war.

[????]

It's difficult for a party that's so reliant on state employees and unions for its funding and support to do this as

a) Labour found out in the 70s

b) and is probably why some more strategic minded Labour politicians are secretly plaesed they are not in power when such painful and neccessary cuts to public spending are being made

Critics might argue thats this bit (below) is an assumption rather than proved but I tend to agree

Or is there more precedent for a left wing government taking the tax and spend approach that leads to increasing debt.

It could be argued that Roosevelt's left wing govt in the 30s pulled the US out of the Depression, though modern economists tend to say it was the war. But generally, my personal view is that left wing governemnts are generally terrible at economics becuase they are all about romance and nothing about ptracticality.

[Huguenot]

Look at the data

Right wingers are liars. Always were always will be.

Look at the data.

[Huguenot]

That's not you quids ;-)

[Mick Mac]

Good answer Mr Quids. See you in the Castle in 10mins for your prize. Woops too late its shut.

Huguenot - very defensive response there. The question is more whether they could solve the problem rather than having created it.

[Huguenot]

Thatcher stole pension funds to pay for tax cuts.

That's the f up on pensions.

[Huguenot]

Mick Mac that's daft.

The resolution in debt goes with defence spending, the only thing that republicans refuse to move on. Social services have had no impact on US national debt.

[Mick Mac]

Its not US question - its more generic.

[LadyDeliah]

The US have never had a left wing government.

[Annette Curtain]

Does any government actually have wings

I mean IF it/they did surely a left & a right would be best

Otherwise one wing of either would cause it/them to fly round in opposite circles

Maybe that's part of the actual problem, no?

NETTE:-S

[Frankito]

Are tge Americans ever likely to make any money from being in Afghanistan and Iraq? If not then sirely they should cut their losses and go back home and leave them to it. War is an expensive game...

[Huguenot]

This is an interesting political map... (sorry I had to break the page, but when I shrank it, it wasn't legible).

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2011/7/22/1311335535423/Information-is-Beautiful--001.jpg

I can see where some of our more strident pundits fall on this ;-)

[katie1997]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Following on from a debate in the Drawing Room

> regarding the difficulties in the US on it's

> ability to meet it's debt obligations....

>

> Can a left wing or socialist minded government

> ever solve a finanical crisis or get a country out

> of a recession - Is there much precedent for this

> ?

No.

> Or is there more precedent for a left wing

> government taking the tax and spend approach that

> leads to increasing debt.

Yes.

[Huguenot]

katienumbers' opinion is typical of poorly informed right-wing tub thumping. It's wrong and it fcuks nations up.

The biggest recessions in history have been solved by left wing governments.

The Great Depression in the US was caused by right wing US governments.

This is what right wing governments did to the US in the 20s:

By the end of the decade, the bottom 80 percent of all income-earners will be removed from the tax rolls completely. Taxes on the rich will fall throughout the decade.

By 1929, the richest 1 percent will own 40 percent of the nation's wealth. The bottom 93 percent will have experienced a 4 percent drop in real disposable per-capita income between 1923 and 1929.

Individual worker productivity rises an astonishing 43 percent from 1919 to 1929. But the rewards are being funneled to the top: the number of people reporting half-million dollar incomes grows from 156 to 1,489 between 1920 and 1929, a phenomenal rise compared to other decades. But that is still less than 1 percent of all income-earners.

The Great Depression wasn't alleviated until the election of Roosevelt in 1933, a left winger whose belief in the redistribution of wealth was so frightening to the right wing establishment that they actually planned a military coup!!!

[katie1997]

Hahaha "katienumbers opinion". My "opinion" consists of a yes and a no. Hopefully Mick will get it. Can't be arsed with bores on here.

Go get a sense of humour. Do yourself a favour. Your posts are the biggest load of contrived yawn.

[Huguenot]

It's so easy for you to start rolling out the insults when the truth hurts.

Don't expect a right winger to pay any attention to truth at all katienumbers. Goes the same place as climate change denial eh? ;-)

Anyway here's national debt by government colour. It's as clear as you like that there is no correlation between 'debt' and the political colour of the government.

Both types of government increase and decrease debt. It's driven by world events and macro economic events, not by petty issues like social conscience.

To cross tab that with recessions:

1919-21 cuts in government spending (post war)

1930-31 cuts in government spending (right wing policies)

1973-75 oil crisis

1980-82 caused by monetarist policies

1990-92 caused by lack of management and regulation of financial markets (savings and loan)

2008-09 caused by lack of management and regulation of financial markets (leveraging and bad debt)

So I think it would be fair to say that 5 out of the last 6 recessions were caused by right wing policies.

[maxxi]

Very pretty graphics Huge - like some of the stuff Scientologists used to hand out in Tottenham Court Rd.,

Left wing!? What fucking left wing? I don't remember seeing a left wing government here or in the US for over 30 years.

[Annette Curtain]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Anyway here's national debt by government colour.

Please Sir...

* puts hand up *

What team is the Purple one on your picture & the Pink one for that matter.

Is it the Purple on that keeps sinking us ?

( doesn't Purple sound like a lot like Papal, funnily ? )

NETTE:-$

[LadyDeliah]

I'm finding it a strange experience, but I agree with Hugo ;-)

[DJKillaQueen]

Me too LD. Governments both left and right can have varying degrees of success and failure when it comes to debt. External factors beyond their control are often at play too.

[????]

There's plenty of people who don't fit into that stupid (and US politics) map Hugenot, plenty...although interesting many of those on the 'left' and progressive side of it seem to think anyone who qusetion them fit in the far blue/right by default as I find out day after day on here. People who don't think for themselves just like to put poeple in their easy label boxes.....you know, using terms like 'Guardian Readers, 'Liberals' etc ;-)

[katie1997]

???? = B)

[acm]

.

[Huguenot]

I don't quite get what you're saying there acm? This seems to show that the US is the same as the UK in the sense that the 'colour' of the government has no correlation with debt.

Please note that in the US the colours are reversed to the UK. In the US right wing is red, and left wing is blue (the terms right and left here are comparative not absolute).

Quids, the arch proponent of lazy stereotypes is complaining about being 'put in a box'. Ha ha :)) I'm so relieved you can see the irony!

I should imagine that nobody fits precisely into 'that stupid map' just as nobody fits into 'stupid' stereotypes of Guardianista bourgeoisie or lazy Greek spongers.

I can't see how any sane person would try and say that people were so clear cut?

I'm certainly not putting anyone into easy boxes, I can see how despite my generally left wing social leanings I also have a lot of right wing characteristics.

Please feel free to use the 'map' as intended - for a bit of light-hearted fun and self-analysis ;-)