The game-season has started.

[Rick Channing]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I don't have a campaign against the 2nd Amendment,

> I neither know nor care what it is.

>

> I was in fact responding to your original

> statement here: "But what a shame it is that the

> firearms laws in this country are so unnecessarily

> restrictive."

>

> I have pointed out that contrary to your rather

> stupid opinion, the 'shame' is the 12,632 people

> in the US who were murdered at the end of a

> firearm, or the other 25,000 who also died at the

> end of firearms through accident or misadventure.

>

> Your rather 'Smug American' demand for access to

> weapons so you can play with yourself would most

> likely end up with thousands of people dead who

> didn't need to be.

>

> Only someone deranged could think that was a good

> idea.

Then why are you so opposed to the concept?

[Huguenot]

Ermm.. because of the 12,632 people murdered with firearms?

Are you genuinely this stupid?

[Rick Channing]

Dude, you're getting way too butthurt over this. If the figures you've yet to cite are true, then that's a collateral damage I'm willing to live with in order to continue endorsing a liberal attitude to gun ownership. Anyway, people get shot the world over. Get over it, shit happens.

[Alan Medic]

Collateral damage ffs. That's grouse for ye.

[Marmora Man]

Hugenot,

While not wishing to intrude into your personal battles your

There are 10,000 gun murders a year in the US, and only 10 in the UK.

seems off beam to me.

Without researching it via Google or Wikipedia it seems to me that UK episodes of "going postal" are on the rise. I can think of more than 10 gun related deaths a year in recent times, for example Derrick Bird's (?) Cumbria shootings killed 12 I think last year. We've also had Dunblane and Hungerford in the past.

Locally here in our part of South London gun crime and gun deaths are not remarkable - I think the score is up to about 5 this year alone. In Norway - we recently saw over 85 people killed by gun and bomb by a single person, the problem is not unique to the USA.

The gun crime / gun ownership correlation is intriguing but not proof positive of your argument. Ever tighter UK laws against gun ownership haven't seen a corresponding fall in gun crime.

Your use of absolute figures is also, as you must be aware, misleading. The US has a population more than 5 times as large as UK - that said it would still make the US rate of deaths by gun significantly higher than it is UK - but not the 1000 times you imply.

[Rick Channing]

Ouch.

[Alan Medic]

These stats should keep you going.....

No mention of grouse though.

[Huguenot]

"Without researching it..."

There's your clue mate. The figures clearly vary dependent upon which year you're looking at. You bizarrely argue that you don't believe the figures merely because you don't want to, which is an illogical approach.

"Ever tighter UK laws against gun ownership haven't seen a corresponding fall in gun crime.". I'm not sure what this is referring to, but it seems to be incorrect. This story is describing substantial falls over the last decade. Please note that the '42' figure refers to all deaths, not just homicides. The equivalent 'deaths' figure for the US would be around 35,000.

The fact is that the number of gun homicides in the US simply IS thousands of times larger than the UK.

I have made no claim that restricting access to guns would zero this figure, but you can't kill a person with a gun if you don't have access to one.

[katie1997]

katie1997 Wrote:

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> Back on topic, has anyone been on a grouse shoot

> or planning on going on one?

Well that's that then. Much as I thought.

[Annette Curtain]

katie1997 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> katie1997 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Back on topic, has anyone been on a grouse

> shoot

> > or planning on going on one?

>

> Well that's that then. Much as I thought.

NO But watching Rick C & Hugeknot shooting each other in the foot is ( for now ) way more fun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Wild_turkey_eastern_us.jpg " Waas-up Dude "