Request for comment: Collapse of the U. S. A.

[richardbach]

lol

[ibilly99]

Some much heat but the truth is sadly we are in a place which is growing darker year by year and the future economically will be poorer than the past we have been living on borrowed time for decades and this is the time where the debt has to be netted. We are in Great Depression 2 - the Great Capitulation. This will probably last for the best part of a decade and combined with increasing extreme weather owing to climate change and a growing number of mouths to fill inexorably leads to war. I fear that the natural characteristics of man along with the pyramidal nature of power means the least suited get to control the levers of power. Globalisation and the concept of shareholder value over national interest means the game is moving away from advanced over entitled western democracies to asia and the emerging economies - basically we are just too expensive - when some balance has been achieved i.e we will work for much less and expect much less from society that hasn't been earnt from fundamental economic activity then real growth can resume in the meantime indebted government are printing their way to 'recovery'. The macro picture is depressing which is why bread and circuses are much more fun and why I'm going to the Carnival.

[katie1997]

Paragraphs, dear ibilly99, paragraphs please.

You nutter ;-)

[richardbach]

nutter lite innit

[ibilly99]

We're just little people que sera sera - the people who make the decisions that shape our lives aren't spending time contributing to local internet forums -

[maxxi]

The pity of it all is that no one can see that our society is collapsing around us and that cash and plastic are due to be sacrificed on the bonfire of the vanities (no not the book, silly); that the future lies in barter is in no doubt and he/she who neglects their pickles, their chutneys, their salted runner beans and - above all - their jam pan is in for a sticky future.

Fine, don't believe me. But when the stock exchange starts looking like the Multicoloured Swapshop don't say you weren't warned.

[ibilly99]

Maxxi you're right never has so much information been available - never has the truth of our world been so knowable - collapse is built into everything in the universe and most importantly our lives. Philosophers and sages point the way out but the venal desire of the greedy who gain power and control set the agenda.

If you're not making some preparations for what's to come then it's the equivalent of not having insurance on you car. My father RIP had poignant memories of a collapsed Europe during and after the war which came about as a result of economic collapse. It is 1913 in Europe at the moment but a great storm is coming - this is the cycle of human endeavour - boom and bust which Gordon Brown has handily abolished and then fighting for what's left.

[Scylla100]

I totally agree with NN! I'm following Nicole Foss as well. For those of us following the news like this it becomes a bit of an obsession and if you aren't used to looking at concepts like peak oil or world financial collapse, the concepts sound just too unpleasant to take seriously.

My only point of departure would be, the UK (and the EEC) is going to go to Hell in a Hand basket first because of sovereign debt, the USA will follow on after that. But for all of us living this nice middle clash-ish life, it comes down to: Our system (capitalist or semi capitalist, whatever you call it)is based on continual growth. Continual growth is based on having abundant and cheap energy and resources. Oil is the cheapest and most abundant form of energy, but its finite so at some point the world will run out of cheap oil (though we'll never run out entirely, we'll just run out of the cheap stuff). You can talk about other forms of energy but oil is the more important.

It seems like the first thing to go, before peak energy, peak water, climate change or over population, is the financial system. That's what people like Nicole Foss, James Howard Kuntsler, and Richard Heinberg are saying. Even Noam Chompsky has agreed with this to some extent. Its difficult to say what will happen after a financial collapse, riots? Looting? High unemployment that won't come down? The rise of repressive authoritarian governments? Lower standard of living?

Supposedly what is next in the immediate future is the collapse of the EEC when someone like Greece pulls out of the Euro. One would have sounded like a nutter to even suggest such a thing four years ago, but now, surly it doesn't sound that crazy?

Scylla

[ibilly99]

The middle class are being rinsed -

[Huguenot]

I think problems like this are unlikely to be solved when we don't understand that we were the ones that generated it - you can't blame other people for giving us what we demanded.

All this talk of thieves and liars totally misses the point. It's just convenient to blame other people.

[New Nexus]

I think the latest set of postings have seen or at leased looked at the bigger picture.

When desperate times come and they will, crazy people end up in power, history shows us this time and time again.

Make enough people scared for a long enough time, you can get them to vote for jumping off a cliff.

Take a look at the ?Middle East up rising? stuff like this does not just happen. It is not a cry for democracy, it is an endgame move in a chess game.

I think most people will understand where this is going, once they have carried out their own investigation into this subject.

If your upset or angered by what I have said, that is understandable.

Choose life.

[ibilly99]

The elite always push the people too far until their naked greed is visible for all to see and then at the point of a gun they are forced to give up some more of their wealth back to the people who really created it - and the cycle begins again.

[Huguenot]

Nobody is denying there is a 'big picture' going on - what people are suggesting is the the hysterical 'end of the world is nigh' rants accusing everybody of being liars and cheats, that we're all going to be eating out of the gutter, is totally without a sense of proportion.

All this screaming about government debt is spectacularly poorly informed. In fact government debt is hovering around the lowest points it's been in the last 100 years.

The thing is, none of the doomsayers give a shit about the facts, the truth - you all just want to get together and scream about how it's all going to be terrible.

You're not even original in this...

Here's another flagellant:

http://www.schwulencity.de/versohlt/mittelalterlicherFlagellantItalien17JH.jpg

[maxxi]

Ah, tush and pish 'twas ever thus... (Robert Robinson, 17 December 1927 ? 12 August 2011)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9o7QfUszDJFCDEWM0I84yMxzk_x3HbPQfHw9ccAmUoRrtwksD

[ibilly99]

As some point empires collapse generally when they get bloated and over extended -hysterical ranting economics Professor Niall Ferguson sums its up nicely ...

?What if history is not cyclical and slow moving but arrhythmic ? at times almost stationary, but also capable of accelerating suddenly? What if collapse does not arrive over a number of centuries but comes suddenly, like a thief in the night??

Great powers and empires?operate somewhere between order and disorder ? on ?the edge of chaos,? in the phrase of? Christopher Langton. Such systems can appear to operate quite stably for some time; they seem to be in equilibrium but are, in fact, constantly adapting. But there comes a moment when complex systems ?go critical.? A very small trigger can set off a ?phase transition? from a benign equilibrium to a crisis?

If empires are complex systems that sooner or later succumb to sudden and catastrophic malfunctions, rather than cycling sedately from Arcadia to Apogee to Armageddon, what are the implications for the United States today? ?For now, the world still expects the United States to muddle through? But one day, a seemingly random piece of bad news ? will make the headlines during an otherwise quiet news cycle. Suddenly, it will be not just a few policy wonks who worry about the sustainability of U.S. fiscal policy but also the public at large, not to mention investors abroad. It is this shift that is crucial: a complex adaptive system is in big trouble when its component parts lose faith in its viability.?

[New Nexus]

?government debt is hovering around the lowest points it's been in the last 100 years.?

Quick tell Osborne, he can stop all the austerity measure.

[Huguenot]

ibilly99, Niall Ferguson is postulating a hypothesis, not stating a fact.

Can you not tell the difference?

Can I add that Ferguson sees the real problem as being not the financial system itself, but... "the public at large [..] a complex adaptive system is in big trouble when its component parts lose faith in its viability."

Can you see what he's saying there? He's saying that if we find ourselves in trouble, it won't be because of the policy wonks, it'll be because of idiots like you trying to destroy people's confidence.

I'm sure that gives you a sense of power, and that's why you do it. Frankly I shall subject you to the ridicule you deserve for embarking on such a pointless exercise.

[New Nexus]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ibilly99, Niall Ferguson is postulating a

> hypothesis, not stating a fact.

>

> Can you not tell the difference?

>

> Can I add that Ferguson sees the real problem as

> being not the financial system itself, but... "the

> public at large [..] a complex adaptive system is

> in big trouble when its component parts lose faith

> in its viability."

>

> Can you see what he's saying there? He's saying

> that if we find ourselves in trouble, it won't be

> because of the policy wonks, it'll be because of

> idiots like you trying to destroy people's

> confidence.

>

> I'm sure that gives you a sense of power, and

> that's why you do it. Frankly I shall subject you

> to the ridicule you deserve for embarking on such

> a pointless exercise.

This is clearly rubbing you up the wrong way, maybe we should explore this, any childhood issues? Maybe abandonment issues? Teddy taken away to soon?

[ibilly99]

I'm pleased you have such confidence in the powers that be Hugenot - the same powers that be that have smashed Libyan infrastructure to pieces and will lead to untold suffering pace Iraq - and an American empire that was complicit with 3 million deaths in SE Asia all to keep the great western economic engine ticking over so that we can have our stuff. Interest rates at their lowest for 400 hundred years and QE for the first time in our history are obviouly just figments of my idiotic imagination - no need to worry then - enjoy the carnival.

First rule is don't panic second rule is if your are going to panic panic first.

[Huguenot]

I understand ibilly99, it's good to get the confirmation - you're all in 'panic first' mode as we suspected ;-)

[New Nexus]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I understand ibilly99, it's good to get the

> confirmation - you're all in 'panic first' mode as

> we suspected ;-)

There?s that ?you're all? and ?as we? again.

[ibilly99]

My regular sources for background and insight are ;

Fintag

Zero Hedge

Market Ticker

Itulip

Hugenot you may like to spend a few hours off piste from the mainstream media and the the red pill ...

Welcome to the Matrix

[New Nexus]

ibilly99 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My regular sources for background and insight are

> ;

>

> Fintag

> Zero Hedge

> Market Ticker

> Itulip

>

> Hugenot you may like to spend a few hours off

> piste from the mainstream media and the the red

> pill ...

>

> Welcome to the Matrix

Try also

Steve Keen

Max Keiser

[ibilly99]

How about a poll thingy so we can can all Niall our flags to the mast -

suggest the following;

1 Everything's fine and will come right in the end

2. Things are bad and could get worse but and we are currently in danger

3. We're all doomed we have hit the iceberg and it's time to get to those lifeboats

4. I'm a banker and always trade on the right side of any disaster

[Huguenot]

The Matrix?

Says it all really. ;-)