Southwark Council Refurbishment Consent Refusal

[m.rbsn]

I am a Southwark Council leaseholder and have recently refurbished my property which is on the top floor of a Victorian converted house. Above me there is the roof. Part of the roof is a loft space accessible only by myself which is part of the freehold.

During the refurbishment fire-rated led coil downlighters where installed. Southwark have objected to this and instructed their removal as they infringe Southwark?s own fire safety criteria.

My contractor, who has worked in the Southwark area for many years, states that he has never found a situation like this. He is also asking how the fire integrity could breached when the installation has been done in accordance with the regulations in regards to electrical installation for fire-rated downlights with led coil (not spot lights).

I notified the council of the downlights in their first visit to the property. However, they reached their conclusion after all the work have been finished. I would have thought that the council will be more actively engaged in order to enforce their own stipulations instead of relying on remedial works on part of the leaseholder. This will incur in unnecessary costs on my part.

Have anyone else encountered this issue or are able to offer any advice in this matter?

[Angelina]

I suggest you go and visit their planning team and try and work it out.

Did you go into the attic to make the renovations? or did you lower your own ceiling? You wouldn't be allowed to tamper with the former as it belongs to the freeholder - this may have something to do with it.

It sounds a bit like you've acted on a proposal with the expectation that it would be approved and then found out it's not.

[m.rbsn]

No renovation were done in the attic. The problem is that I put lighting on our ceiling and they now say that this contravene their own fire regulations. They now say that we should have put double ceilings.

They know of our proposal from the start but council waited to make their decision until everything has been finished.

[Sue]

m.rbsn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> They know of our proposal from the start but

> council waited to make their decision until

> everything has been finished.

Were you aware that the work needed a decision from the council?

Were the council aware of the timetable for the work to be carried out?

[Angelina]

not clear why you wouldn't wait for permission for alterations.

[intexasatthe moment]

I wonder what would happen if you ignore the request to remove the downlighters ?

[PeckhamRose]

Leaseholders CAB are in Market Place Southwark park Road. Google them and make an appointment. They will help.

[diable rouge]

Angelina Wrote:

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> I suggest you go and visit their planning team and

> try and work it out.

This isn't to do with Planning, it's a Building Control issue...

[diable rouge]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> I wonder what would happen if you ignore the

> request to remove the downlighters ?

You wouldn't be issued with Building Control's approval certificate of completion, which could be an issue when selling the flat...

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> intexasatthe moment Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I wonder what would happen if you ignore the

> > request to remove the downlighters ?

>

> You wouldn't be issued with Building Control's

> approval certificate of completion, which could be

> an issue when selling the flat...

Well that's better than the guy who had his ?600K flat re-possessed by the freeholder.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/flat-owner-600000-home-seized-13250657

[ponderwoman]

I think its not about a fire hazard from correctly installed lighting, its the fact that the fire break of a plasterboard ceiling has been breached by cutting the lighting holes. In the (hopefully) rare possibility that there was a major fire in the house it could travel through melted light fittings into the roof void putting the whole roof structure at risk of collapse.

As we all know, if the freeholders don't maintain their fire safety criteria and the worst happens, there would be loudly shouted outrage.

Crap result for you, but I really think the contractor should have been aware of this when cutting into someone elses (freeholders) property. Alas, who out there has ever found the council making a correct and decisive decision in a reaonable amount of time.

[m.rbsn]

Thank you all for your replies.

Sue, the council was aware of our plans and timetable. The procedure involve a initial fee after which an initial inspection visit takes place. If everything goes well you get consent for the works but this only is in principle. This implies that you can go ahead with the works with certain conditions. Then you notify them when you start and finish the renovation works. After you tell them that the works is finished, they come back for final inspection. They also tell you that they come during the works are taking place, but they didn?t bother in my case.

Angelina, I have consent from the council prior starting the works but this was consented only in principle. The problem here is that they failed to pass the information very clearly. For instance, they were clear on the need for a fire-rated door in the kitchen but failed to mention the double ceiling for downlights.

Our contractor is a well regarded in this forum and that is the reason I got to know about him. He never have found anything similar despite the fact that he works in the Southwark area. He is really puzzled how the lighting holes could be a problem when the downlighter are fire-rated and they expand in the event of fire. Also the whole electric installation fullfils all the uk regulations. Southwark standards are apparently higher the UK regulations.

The council failed to pass information clearly and also failed to come an inspect the works while they took place which would have raised the issue earlier in the project. I guess is easy for them to rely on remedial works on your part despite this could cost you money. I have also got some private message of people having similar problems than me which make you wonder why the council is not more proactive in this cases in order to make sure that leaseholder doesn?t incur in extra cost

?intexasatthe moment?, as ?diable rouge? says, I wouldn?t get the Building Control's approval. Also they have threatened to come out and do the work themselves then charge me.

Peckham Rose, I have been to the CAB and it seems that Southwark might be able to enforce their regulation. We could always start a complaint procedure as it could be considered ?unreasonable? the fact that they didn?t clearly stipulate their conditions prior to commencement of the works but on completion.

We are considering having the issue inspected privately as we think that the council has arrived at its conclusion based on a very poor inspection. I would like to ask if anyone can advise of any company doing building control in the area.

[Sally Eva]

http://www.londonbuildingcontrol.co.uk

https://www.lease-advice.org

To object legally I think you need the First Tier Tribunal Property Chamber.

https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/application-first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber/

https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber

[James Barber]

General point - Southwark Council have typically been taking 6-12 months to respond to such requests.

Hi m.rbsn,

Email and let's see what we can do to help.