Nativity Plays - Good or bad?

[*Bob*]

Do they still do Christingle these days?

I'm a sucker for an ribboned orange with some cocktail sticks and raisins stuck on it.

[KalamityKel]

especially a 5 star hotel too eh ;-)

[Brendan]

Well to be authentic and new age about it we could always strip the holiday back to what it originally was.

As we all know, the celebrations around Christmas and New Year have their roots in the midwinter celebrations that happened all over Europe in various forms since man first invented party hats. It is a way of marking that we are halfway through the hardship of winter. A bit like going to the pub on a Wednesday night. Let?s call these ?pagan? celebrations for arguments sake.

Now I don?t know about you but I was raised to believe that paganism involved running around on the heath in the nuddy. Which would NOT be very appropriate. And in this weather? You?ll catch your death!

That kind of thing may be fine for fundraising for the WI or Catholic Woman?s League but not for Christmas.

Nativity plays are ok by me. Especially considering the alternatives.

[KalamityKel]

wot exactly is a the Catholic Woman's League? Soz for asking, I seem to be a bit out of touch with these things...

[Brendan]

It is a paramilitary organisation hell-bent on world domination.

;-)

Well not really. They do charity work and make jam and stuff.

[KalamityKel]

like the WI?

[Brendan]

Yeah.

[KalamityKel]

ooooo I c!

Not my cuppa tea

[atila the gooner]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> Is it something that should be phased out so as

> not to offend people of other or no religion? Or

> should there be room for this Christian tradition

> alongside traditional celebrations from other

> religions?

>

> This debate drives me nuts, I am from a muslim background and am disgusted that christians should have to defend putting on a traditional play. Keep 'em going, I loved being in them as a kid. What has this society come to when we have to ponder every single aspect of our lives for fear of "offending" another section of it.

[Brendan]

It?s called stupidity atila.. sorry, no, I mean liberalism?... er no wait was that secularism? Oh I don?t know anymore. :-S

[TillieTrotter]

Thats good to hear that Atila, wish everyone had your sense of fairplay.(tu)

[SeanMacGabhann]

it's not really a question of fair play or unfair play tho is it Tillie?

No-one is stopping any schools having nativity plays. It sounds like many parents want them. I'm not aware of any real coalition of non-Christian groups demanding they be stopped

Is it just school governers being overly-sensitive? Or are they trying a few different thing? By that I don't think there is any element of "politically correct" imposition here. It's entirely down to the school in question and what they want to do

Judging by the comments on here people who want a nativity play will complain to their schools and everyone else will go about their merry way...

[LizzygotDizzy]

PC gone crazy if you ask me when it comes to schools being afraid of holding nativity plays through fear of upsetting the non-christian element of society. Even my friends of varying religions find this all absolutely ridiculous and do not support or condone it one bit, in fact they say it makes things worse for them!

[SeanMacGabhann]

This is entirely my point - to state THAT as the reason for this is to make an assumption. I don't believe ANYONE is afraid or scared. It;s just an excuse to lazily dredge up "political correcteness gone made" cliche

But then I made that point in my last post and it was ignored

If it IS schoolds making this decision based on "fear" then it's nowt to do with PC, christians, muslims or anything APART from a lame, weak, school-head. No-one is imposing anything on any schools. Not me, not Ken, not Labour, not anything...

But if a school chooses to look at the wider world reflected in it's pupil-base and chooses to do something other than the white-Christiann tradiition, and not because of "fear" then that's a perfectly valid choice

[PeckhamRose]

I totally agree with the point below.

I went to a CofE school and it drove me nuts. In Science they taught you about experimentation and proving stuff, then next lessons asked you to take on faith what you were being told about the story of Christ and so on. Such hypocrisy. Whilst political correctness has its place when it comes to being kind and reasonable and inclusive to all people of all backgrounds, the fear factor and litigious society we find ourselves in nowadays has made it just plain nasty and daft. Myself, I try and be good NOT because of the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell, but because it just makes sense to be good and so on. I have looked into the eyes of women whose kids have been murdered, they know at that point there was no God. It was just humans being bad.

There is no God. Get over it people. We made him up when we didn't have the science to explain rainbows and thunder.

Meanwhile, when Judi Dench's daughter was a little girl she played the InnKeeper's wife (proving that there have always been crap roles for women over 30 throughout the ages), and the press came and invited her to tell them what the Nativity was about. In true starry style she replied, "It's about this Inn Keeper's Wife...."

> > This debate drives me nuts, I am from a muslim

> background and am disgusted that christians should

> have to defend putting on a traditional play. Keep

> 'em going, I loved being in them as a kid. What

> has this society come to when we have to ponder

> every single aspect of our lives for fear of

> "offending" another section of it.

[Brendan]

Yeah I tend to agree with Sean on the ?Political Correctness Gone Mad? thing. I am not particularly for political correctness myself (I have this ridiculous idea that people can just get along regardless of their differences if they are adult about it.) but I think the term ?Political Correctness Gone Mad? has been hijack by some circles to create a siege mentality.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Good.

[LizzygotDizzy]

But it isn't the schools themselves that make the decision as to whether or not they have a nativity, well certainly not in my local primary, when I asked the headteacher why there was no traditional nativity play this year as it was Christmas, she said, "officially" they were exploring other religions and ways of celebrating yuletide this year, but unofficially and off the record (as she is a friend as well) she said they have had pressure from "the powers that be", to do this.

[LizzygotDizzy]

And if thats not mad/crazy then what is?

[TillieTrotter]

Sean, sometimes, as much as you are lovely and adoreable, you can come across as a tad condescending. I essentially meant that its good to hear the other side of the penny in these (controversial) issues because I believe that they are probably the mainstream opinion and not the opinions portrayed in the press. I do like you awfully and will buy you the biggest drink tomorrow. xxxx

[TillieTrotter]

Am feeling like I've blasphemed.::o

[Brendan]

Well if the ?powers that be? are putting pressure on them to not celebrate Christmas then what has to be established is if this is an across the board drive to make state education completely secular and if so does society agree with it. That is the big question.

Personally I think it is a stupid idea but it is something that is up to society as a whole. Many people completely shun the religious side of Christmas in their personal lives so perhaps it is time for the education system to reflect that. It would be a sad development in my opinion but there you go.

As for the non-competitiveness in sports and such: Well then the human race may as well just lay down in its own filth and decide to stop evolving. If this business does take off in English schools then it is a sad day indeed. 1966 I think it was. Well don?t hold your breath coz it aint happening again.

[Brendan]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

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> Am feeling like I've blasphemed.::o

why? Unlike me you aren't normally a pottymouth.

[LizzygotDizzy]

Brendon, I agree with you, how is that supposed to prepare our children for the competitiveness they will face in the real world? Competing for jobs, better money, better positions in life, I agree with you, even the exams are being dumbed down so as to make children not feel like they are underachieving, although this is also so that the government can turn around and say way hay, look at all those kids with all those O'/A'levels, who says our education system is failing? and we are basically teaching our kids crap, the sad thing is they expect us to believe it is all in their best interests but does nothng to prepare them for the big bad world out there.

[woodie]

modern day nativity, need a few minutes free to watch it tho.juicy!

some grahpic scenes at beginning yeah? connection between religion, banking and politics. all in one.