Free school in South London - Steiner

[Fuschia]

I agree

[heber jumble queen]

"Why so negative?"

Well because I utterly disagree with the policy of free schools, I'm not a fan of the Steiner philosophy - and yes there is a finite monetary resource for schools (it's not the magic porridge pot, and council budgets are being cut day by day) so the education budget should be spent fairly and wisely on decent co-ed, non-faith schools for all families in my opinion. 'Negative' is pretty much the only option for me here. In the same way I'm not 'upbeat' about the Health and Social Care Bill either- if I oppose something fundamentally then negative is how I get.

Plus what Carbonara said.

[Saffron]

Here is the link to the Free School thread in the Drawing Room:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?27,745792

[James Barber]

We need an extra 60-75 reception places every year in the Dulwich area from 2015 with rotating bulge classes until then - that's the latest forecast I received in response to my council assembly question about this.

Labour's last education bill means local authorities have to publicly ask if anyone else would like to open a school and only as a last resort can they open a community school. Timescales are 5-7 years for such a new school which is certainly the experience of the ED Harris Boys Academy. The 'free' school thing is just a version of this existing ethos but speed things up to 2-4 years. clearly just allowing local Authorities to build new schools would easier but few local authorities have a spare ?20M capital. Hence a further impetus to rely on the national Dept for Education to provide this level of capital.

So far the only people to express any interest in providing a new school locally are Steiner.

So as a community either we encourage others to come up with a 'free' school to fulfil this forecast demand or we accept a Steiner school or we accept a school places crisis.

Rebuffing a Steiner school while no suggesting an alternative - considering the only show in town is the 'free' school system - will see a school place crisis.

[alieh]

decent co-ed, non-faith schools for all families

I completely agree with this and that the free school policy seems utterly pointless and a drain of resources. If the council is funding the school then why not just manage it as well? Very odd. But then I'm not from the UK originally and where I grew up you just go to whatever is your closest school and if there are too many children they add temporary buildings or provide buses to another location. Never occurred to me to rank or rate the school, it was just my local school so I went!

But saying that, to deal with the immediate problem of school places per James Barber's post above, is there appetite in the area to set up a "decent, co-ed, non-faith" free school while simultaneously vociferously lobbying against the concept of free schools?? I would be interested in supporting this type of initiative if so.

[prickle]

James, are the views expressed in your post yours, Lib Dems or Southwark's? Which ever way, it leaves me speechless. So you are effectively saying that we should accept any old free school proposal to plug the gap? Where do you draw the line? Obviously not at Steiner - so where? Faith schools? Vanity projects? Creationist?

PS also like the way you slid in 'Labour'. This is your, the councils problem now and should be dealt with as such.

[Carbonara]

It's not a solution to the lack of school places if the only new capacity is a school system that many parents would avoid and see as an even less attractive option than single sex, religious, or whatever.

My perception is that a Steiner school would suit some children very well, especially those whose parents understand and support the ethos, but the reality would be that many would be in there just because it was the only place available, so no 'choice' at all.

James Barber's post is a rallying cry to the parents of ED to found a parent led decent co-ed school, open to all. The parents of Lambeth did it and now have the excellent Elmgreen - although that is a community school.

[El Pibe]

Steiner = Woo.

Avoid like the plague.

[Curmudgeon]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So as a community either we encourage others to

> come up with a 'free' school to fulfil this

> forecast demand or we accept a Steiner school or

> we accept a school places crisis.

>

> Rebuffing a Steiner school while no suggesting an

> alternative - considering the only show in town is

> the 'free' school system - will see a school place

> crisis.

I think you may wish to reconsider this statement

The LA is responsible for ensuring there are adequate educational places in the borough for the population - it is strategic planning

[Otta]

So you are effectively saying that we should accept any old free school proposal to plug the gap?

To be fair, I don't think James was saying that at all. He seemed to be saying that the current situation is far from ideal, but it is what it is, and we need to live with it. So, rather than just moaning about the proposed opening of a Steiner school on an internet forum, perhaps we as a community should be exploring other options.

It shouldn't be that way, the local authority should be in a position to make sure there are enough schools / school places to meet need, but quite simply, they are not.

Personally, having read up on Steiner education, I started off thinking "that all sounds quite reasonable", then I got to the whole Anthroposophy bit, at which point I decided that El Pibe had basically summed it up pretty well.

"Woo" indeed.

[skyblue]

We get the politicians we deserve.

Looks like there is a need and a desire for a new primary in East Dulwich.

If the 'community' doesn't fill the gap some one else will and the Tories have pushed that responsibility onto the 'community' of parents in the form of free schools.

Didn't the East Dulwich Lib dems want a new primary on the old hospital site?

In suggesting it -they must have a thought as to how it will be run- what is this?

James could you reply to this please. Also where will the Stiener School be? James from your previous posts you say the school has already been approved so they must have an East Dulwich site in mind do you know where this is or is likely to be?

A Harris primary maybe the least worst option and if it could then feed to a new ed co -ed then that sorts two issues out at once. Not ideal put a realistic solution.

[El Pibe]

In all fairness Otta, deep amoing the guts of Steiner philosophy, they pose some interesting and relevant questions, it's just that their answers are so very, very wrong!!

[Saffron]

prickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James, are the views expressed in your post yours,

> Lib Dems or Southwark's? Which ever way, it leaves

> me speechless. So you are effectively saying that

> we should accept any old free school proposal to

> plug the gap? Where do you draw the line?

> Obviously not at Steiner - so where? Faith

> schools? Vanity projects? Creationist?

>

Creationist schools, i.e. those teaching 'intelligent design', will not be funded by the free schools program. Steiner/Waldorf schools do not teach intelligent design, and therefore will be allowed to apply to the free schools program just as any other faith school is allowed to do so. But the debate as to whether state-funded schools should teach religion is not the subject on which the OP began this thread, so it has questionable relevance at best to the original post, whether one agrees or disagrees with religion in state schools.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/15/free-schools-creationism-intelligent-design

[prickle]

Saffron: "But the debate as to whether state-funded schools should teach religion is not the subject on which the OP began this thread, so it has questionable relevance at best to the original post, whether one agrees or disagrees with religion in state schools. "

OP refers to free schools. As you may have gathered by now, I am totally against them on principle. One of my objections is that by definition they have to be backed by some sort of individual/group (religious, vanity, corporate, whatever). Something that has an USP. I believe in free at delivery, coed, secular, community (in the broadest sense of the word), local schools. Plain and simple - is that too much to ask? It's looking like it is.:'(

[James Barber]

I'm really sorry for not making myself clear.

I believe Local Authorities should be able to apply for government funding to build community schools and if they can prove a need get the required funding. But sadly the coalition govt has continued the Labour govts daft idea that local authorities should be the last possible option for a new school.

Local Lib Dems are asking people what they think should be on the Dulwich Community Hopsital site when it is redeveloped and having checked on school role numbers we think a primary school as a minimum is required there. Hopefully people agree with us.

As 'free' schools are the only show in town I am seeking a body to apply for one. Locally we have plenty of religious schools so hopefully not another religous one.

It appears Steiner parents are interested in this option. I don't know enough about their ethos to be for or against them starting a school - I'll be finding out but I am VERY clear every school should have a clear anti bullying policy.

I wouldn't personally be keen on the Harris federation opening another Academy as they seem to be running an awful lot of local schools - equally we must haver another school.

Perhaps Kingsdale or Charter but neither have yet established federation mechanisms for running multiple schools.

Hi Prickle,

I agree but you and I don't/can't change the rules. I don't agree with the original Academy status but that was the only way of getting another secondary school in the area. So I and others swallowed our pride and we now have another 150 secondary places pa in the area.

Hi Saffron,

Thanks for that. I would man the baracades about children being taught creationism in science.

Hi skyblue,

The Steiner school people have't to my knowledge applied to the DfE. But they are seeking views via this thread which is excellent.

[Carbonara]

re the proposed Steiner school - we haven't asked the OP what the admission criteria would be. It could be that they would prioritise Steiner educated children as a secondary follow on for the Streatham school and Steiner educated children from far and wide, in which case the area is left with yet another school which does not use locality / distance as a criteria, and so does not address shortage of places. On the other hand if it is open to all comers on distance, some people assertively opposed to Steiner could find it is the nearest catchment school and yet again they have no other realistic choice. Both scenarios would be scandalous in my opinion.

OP: Where is the proposed site? Why have you picked ED as a possible location and to meet what need or demand? What would the entrance criteria be?

[Curmudgeon]

OP

- do you allow your children to paint with black paint?

- what part of the national curriculum do you plan to follow

- do you start each day with dancing

- do you categorise children by their body type

- do you believe in anthroposophy

- have you rejected the racist overtones associated with Rudolf Steiner

- what proportion of your existing children leave school unable to read fluently

My issue is how incredibly appealing the Steiner aesthetic appears to be on the surface particularly to liberal-minded folk and I'm sure you believe that East Dulwich is the perfect area to expand into.

[El Pibe]

I've no idea whether or not creationism is taught. If it isn't doubtless it's because Steiner had his own rather esoteric take on matters

Try reading his book on creation here

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vUcV67_Ni30C&pg=PA106&vq#v=onepage&q&f=false

I love the bit where he's careful to reassure the reader that he 'relied soley on spiritual scientific investigation' as he launches into an exposition of lucerific influences in the formation of the world and its parallels to magnetism and elastic trickery...

*makes circular motions with finger next to temple* "Woooooooo"

[dontpanic]

If you want to know what a real Steiner school looks like do check out this video, or indeed visit our school on our friday open days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MDSYxFpqxs&feature=youtu.be

I am a parent at the school, so I can only report my own experiences and opinions. I can tell you something of the feeling, experiences and community involved in a Steiner school.

I can tell you the following answers Curmudgeon:

- do you allow your children to paint with black paint? I have not come across this issue.. Except in my own perfectly normal secondary school many years ago, but that's another story.

- what part of the national curriculum do you plan to follow? The school does not follow the national curriculum. This does not mean the children don't leave school with a fully rounded and comnsidered education - by a mainstream or a Steiner definition, Steiner students do very well post-school.

- do you start each day with dancing? No, but singing and dancing are integral to the school, as indeed they are in many mainstream schools, faith or non-faith; and indeed a lot of peoples lives as adults. You are referring to Eurythmy, which is a dance, and which Steiner schools practice.

- do you categorise children by their body type. No

- do you believe in anthroposophy? I don't personally, and I'm not unusual; some parents at the school do, some have completely different beliefs. Some teachers do and some don't. they don't 'teach' anthroposophy.

- have you rejected the racist overtones associated with Rudolf Steiner. YES - please see http://www.steinerwaldorf.org/faqs.html#racism

- what proportion of your existing children leave school unable to read fluently? I don't have figures for that. Its a misconception that Steiner education does not like books, or reading. Just today I have been at the school and seen how many children and staff have come in costume for World Book Day. The children celebrate narrative and storytelling before they learn to read, that is what is unusual (indeed I canot believe this is even seen as a strange way to teach children to read by some. It's been done forever across all education ).

I must say in answer to some other questions, that the school is deeply commited to becoming a part of whatever community it finds itself in. The very bedrock of why parents want to be part of Steiner is that the school is a community. families become part of the school and vice versa. This surely can't be a bad idea? I speak as a parent who has experienced a reception year at a state school where there was no clear communication between parents and teachers.

I will also add that you will find a wide diversity of children and parents at a Steiner school. We are not all hippies, and we all want the best for our children. There has to be room in education for a variety of approaches. Each child is so different, each responds differently; its not for some, but many find it is for them...

[dontpanic]

Also, creationism is not taught. I would be very unhappy about that.

[sophiechristophy]

dontpanic - the fact that 'not many' rather than 'none' of the children leave school note being able to read/write is surely a concern?

[dontpanic]

I meant none as far as I know - and have no reason to believe not. Was speaking generally about Steiner and not specifically.

[cam_beauty]

Wow what an amazingly interesting discussion !?)

There are lots of ways about finding out about Waldorf education and how your child might benefit from such a school-being an informed parent is a great thing and this is a great forum to ask questions and develop your ideas.

I am also a parent with two children at a Waldorf school and live locally-I always thought I would send my children to state school until I found out about Waldorf education. I have also been wary about the whole ethos behind FreeSchools-but the fact is they are happening and they can provide more school places for our children from all backgrounds. I fully support a FreeSchool with a Waldorf ethos in Southwark.

Do also look at http://www.facebook.com/waldorflondon

Every week in term time there is a parent and child group for up to 3.5 yo on Monday and Tuesday afternoons 1-3pm and an outside parent and child group from 10-12noon-meet at Tooting lido car park (carers welcome also).

There is a School Open Day every Friday at 12noon.

And some more useful information:

For the Early Years and into the Lower School stories are told every day from memory. In kindergarten this can lead into a puppet show which the children might end up performing themselves in free play. So storytelling is an important skill, and is used by us all not only in the classroom but also in everyday life-business and dare I say it politics (!) So do sign up for a 'Storytelling workshop' in April on how to bring wonderful stories written by you to your children and colleagues: http://waldorflondon.co.uk/event/therapeutic-storytelling-workshop/ More information on the workshop leader Susan Perrow can be found here http://www.healingthroughstories.blogspot.com/ Healing stories might be to help a child stop biting their finger nails or encourage team work within a class or tell older children an important historical story or help a child through bereavement issues...come give it a go!

Take a look at this new film about Steiner and some of the work done in the community, not just with children but with all members of society young and old, is highlighted here:

Look here at work in the community in Maidstone: http://www.blackthorn.org.uk/

And do fill in this survey whether you are for or against it, all views are important and considered:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FreeSchool

Further information about Waldorf schools in the UK can be found here: http://www.steinerwaldorf.org

[prickle]

OP said: "The school does not follow the national curriculum. This does not mean the children don't leave school with a fully rounded and comnsidered education - by a mainstream or a Steiner definition, Steiner students do very well post-school."

The students at Steiner academy in Hereford (the only state-funded Steiner school in the country) got 70% equivalent A*-C GCSE last year but no actual GCSE's. See table on the link. Presumably this was because the students were not entered for proper GCSE's at all.

Was this because the Steiner education had not prepared them adequately for the rigors of GCSE or was it because Steiner educators do not support GCSE's? I don't think this is preparing the students well for post-school life.

Perhaps the OP could comment on this.

Results for Steiner academy

[Curmudgeon]

I think we've been caught now in the Steiner PR machine

I do like the Steiner = Wooo comment above LOL