Facts of life chat - what age?

[Fuschia]

Son no 2 is forever fiddling with himself. I have got to the point where I just say 'stop poking it, you will make it sore!!'

The baby runs around shouting 'willeee!' now

There is no hope

[ryedalema]

Ahh - so the 'easy breezy' approach def over the sitting down and poring over a book then...

That sounds very sensible.

And love the TED talk! Thanks Ruth.

What age do they 'do the chat' in class then? Or don't they do it any more. My biology teacher went bright red when she had to cover the subject - and I bet I'll be the same.

Anyone remember that Monty Python John Cleese sketch? :)

[Belle]

Son is 3.5 and we've touched on 1) who has willies (but havne't come up for a good way of explaining w hat girls have), 2) when son number 1 gets upset because 'it got all big', we just say 'just leave it alone for a bit and it'll go back to normal' try to be matter of fact but it IS hard not to giggle... 3) he did ask me where we 'got' his little brother. We'd just been in the garden chatting about seeds and flowers so I said remember when he was in my tummy, and it got big, then he was ready toc ome out, like when the flowers/herbs are ready to be picked, they started out as seeds etc etc. That was all fine and actually he didn't seem interested in how the seed got there so we've left that for now...on holiday he saw my friend changing and pointed out her boobs saying 'Just like mummy's!' so he gets that women have those too...he knows about periods a bit because he's seen me with Always, I've said they're a special plaster for mummies, that we bleed sometimes but it doesn't hurt etc.

[Fuschia]

The chat is about y3 I think

[laurac]

My five year old has been aware of periods since being very little and coming into the bathroom with me - she knows that it's connected with having babies and that when your body isn't having a baby you bleed but it doesn't hurt. She also knows how babies are born - I bought her a great Jenni Overend book Hello Baby when she was three and a half and her little sister was born but I haven't gone into the details of conception beyond a vague seed and egg from the daddy and mummy - I think that is enough for now for her.

I've always wanted to be very matter of fact and open about periods in particular because, for me, starting my period felt like a shameful, embarrassing thing and obviously I don't want that for her. She's definitely become more aware of bodies recently (male and female) - lots of laughing about how silly willies are!

[bluesuperted]

I really agree that honesty is best in all this stuff - laurac my parents were pretty open from about aged 10, but as I started my period at just 11, I felt just the same (I felt dirty, it was really horrid) and so maybe they could have started earlier so it was all more ingrained.

My 23mo is very interested in his willy and his daddy's too and we are being totally cool with this! In fact yesterday we had a 'chat' about how E has a willy and daddy has a willy but no mummy doesnt have one cos she's a girl. Unchartered territory as a female with one sister but I do think the more open you can be (bathroom door open, seeing bodies naked and answering or responding to them labelling boobies, willy etc) the better. As the questions get more detailed i plan on sticking to age appropriate honesty and looking at books to find out more together.

[Fuschia]

This discussion and our own slight coyness brings me back to an ongoing sub issue.. Naming female genitals. While we are chat happily about willies, most women are more circumspect about girls' bits

Why is that? What do you call them?

[Belle]

Fuschia, I think I recall a thread where people all shared what they call girls' bits...I think the problem is there isn't such an innocuous equivalent as 'willy' - the colloquial words for girls' bits seem to be either derogatory or a bit seedy somehow. Willy is just the perfect level for kids! I know there was a school of thought on here in that thread that we should refer to girls' bits as 'vulva', but I can't bring myself to say that to my 3.5 yr old, so have kept to the vague 'girls' bits' or 'I don't have a willy' (cowardly, I know!) instead.

[ryedalema]

Well at the moment it's punany (poonannee) - not sure where I got that from, probably an old boyf (which could be awkward).

I remember really vividly when my periods started, as I hadn't been told anything about them. My Mum made me lie on the bed 'to have a look and make sure'.

Before that a boy from next door had shown me a tampon and told me it was a pipe cleaner for his recorder!

Aaaaaggghhhh! (Did I grow up in the 1900s or something?)

I'm actually quite looking forward to getting those books now (come on Amazon!).

One v large G&T (for me!) and it should be quite fun.

Just got to compete with Team Umizoomi for some attention first.

[Fuschia]

I picked noonoo

Which wasn't a word ever used in our family but that has been an advantage ... Can be said with no embarrassment

[Ruth_Baldock]

We call it a Moo. Seb calls his little sister Moo Moo. Why? "because she HAS a moo"

errr awkward...

[The Nappy Lady]

Rydalema - make sure you read the books alone first! There are a few bits in "hair in funny places" that we tended to skip initially!!

We call ours a Foo-Fa!!! LOL

[ryedalema]

I just got the books - am very excited. My OH is out tonight so it's me, the books, several Gs and T and some infantile sniggering methinks :)

[gwod]

Ive always answered questions frankly as they come up, but I dont tend to offer any more info than theyve asked for. That way I think they are able to dictate the how much information is approprate for them.

When I Told my eldest, when she was 5 that we were having No 3 she said " So did you and daddy do the special cuddle?"

and when I said we had, she asked "How did it go?"

My method has meant that some times they have asked questions at place and times that I would have rather not been talking about it but Ive tried to anser plainly and move on. Once in the queue at Sainsburys, one of mine said, but "how does daddy's willy get in there, its all floppy?" It broadsided me a bit but its a legitimate question and deseves an answer!

[GinaG3]

Anything my daughter wants to know I tell her honestly without being a) too adult or b) too out of this world stupid.

She is 3 and a half. Has known where babies come from and has been interested asking questions since around 2?! She knows about periods etc too, although not much. Just that she will have them when she gets older.

One girl in our school grew up in a very religious household, until the age of 17 she (very honestly) thought babies were born through the belly button and didn't know how they got there in the first place.

I recommend Mummy laid an egg by Babette Cole too, we had much fun reading this when we were younger. My mum and dad never told us anything, ever. Always ignored every possible question apart from one big argument between me and my little sister about whether babies come out the 'front bum' or 'back bum' to which they only pointed to say who was right, then laughed for weeks. Stupid parents.

[Saffron]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This discussion and our own slight coyness brings

> me back to an ongoing sub issue.. Naming female

> genitals. While we are chat happily about willies,

> most women are more circumspect about girls' bits

>

> Why is that? What do you call them?

We call it what it is: It's a vulva. A friend (who only has a son!) told me this was perverse, to which I replied that it's not perverse. It's anatomical. And, actually, the more you say it, the less weird it sounds.

Not calling it what it is only perpetuates the idea that the correct physical words for female genitals are in some way bad, IMHO.

That being said, my toddler also knows that we use other words for vulva depending on the context, just as we use other words for "head" or "mouth" depending on context. For example, "bump your noggin" or "milk round the mush".

On the subject of Facts of Life, I agree with others that you should answer questions honestly to the level of the child's understanding. I think it's good to bring humour into it sometimes too, and it's also ok to say if you're a bit embarassed to talk about it. IME, children will be more understanding/forgiving of honest explanations even if delivered with a bit of trepidation. We want them to tell us the truth, we should do the same for them. Lead by example. xx

[BB100]

I always think that if a child is old enough to ask the questions she is old enough to get a simple and truthful answer. It is just so important nowadays to teach children their body parts and which bits are private and not to be touch by anyone.

[parkview]

May I just suggest another really great book: it is phantastic because it gives lots of factual information without being too explicit. I have read this to lots of children and they all loved it, from two years onwards: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Where-Willy-Went-Nicholas-Allan/dp/0091892953

[dulwichgirl2]

Now I am confused. Isn't the vulva the entire structure and aren't we really talking about the vagina? Ie the "difference" cf boys?

Language is a diverse and rich thing - I have never heard the words "noggin" or "mush" and wouldn't really encourage a child to use slang words for things as basic as this.

Maybe this is just my approach but I also don't allow incorrect grammar from ch. If anyone says "I seen" or "I done", I correct it and tell them it is wrong. Ie I don't just say the right thing and expect the child to pick up on it. I wish I could do the same with adults and the increasing howler, "I was sat when x happened". Sat? Who sat you down? You were sitting or in a cinema, you were seated.

I need to stop there. I could go on for ages.

[sillywoman]

The Vulva is the external genital organs, so yes you're right dulwichgirl2. I thought the same thing when I read Saffron's post - to me it's not really correctly naming the important bit. It's a vagina in our house (well it would be wouldn't it - seeing as it's a word I have to be able to use frequently without fear or embarrassment!) but, when my 'babies' were younger it was a Fanny-ann, or Fanny. I know some people find that 'common', but - well - I am. So there. :))

Besides, it was either that or 'tuppence', both options courtesy of my Nanna. Lesser of two evils I think.

[Saffron]

dulwichgirl2 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Now I am confused. Isn't the vulva the entire

> structure and aren't we really talking about the

> vagina? Ie the "difference" cf boys?

>

Nothing confusing, it's very straightforward. The vulva is the external set of female genitals only. Wiki does a good grown-up review of the physiology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulva

The word vagina is frequently incorrectly used (even by women!) to refer to the external female genitals. However, the vagina is an internal organ only, and it makes up just part of the complex internal reproductive system. The vagina is the internal tract connecting the vulval opening to the uterus, ending at the os of the cervix. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_os

For a more complex review of grown-up female reproductive anatomy and physiology: http://www.thevbook.com/. Keep this book on your shelf for when your daughters are a bit older too. xx

[sillywoman]

Interesting book post Saffron, but I'm sticking with Vagina. To me that's the bit I & my daughter/sons are talking about when we're discussing facts of life and differences. Girls 'bits' aren't encompassed by 'vulva' so it just doesn't seem like appropriate terminology to me. It's not calling it "what it is". Like everything else with parenting it's each to their own I guess.

And if I (ever) get onto the topic of other bits with any of my children (can imagine my daughter's face If I raise the issue of labia or her clitoris "nooooooo"!) then I'll be calling those bits by their proper names too.

[dulwichgirl2]

We agree then Saffron.

Despite knowing terminology, I don't think there is much to be said for making children different from their peers in terms of parenting. (Fat part ofthe curve and all that.) There was a girl at school whose parents (proudly and vociferously) had no television. At that meant was that she was behind on the really important learning issues of the day - the latest disucssion at break and lunch on what had happened in xyz. I think the parents were erring on the side of academia and maybe their own anti tv snobbery to the detriment of the child. I might do a thread on this. I am increasingly believing that the ability to get on with all walks of life, plus a certain level of intelligence, are the main things required for success and career progression, in contrast to my own upbringing where intelligence and academic study were the be all and end all.

Sw, the richest titled and best connected people often have no manners and are therefore very much that c word (not the awful horrible horrible one!) Sorry but your manners are too good to be your c word. Panto/music hall replies. Where does tuppence come from? With inflation she'd have to say five pounds now. (cue my father/monty python: when I was young, you could go to the cinema/theatre/on holiday and have change from a shilling).

[dulwichgirl2]

Ps disclaimer: any errors of punctuation, spelling, capitals or grammar in my own posts, I blame on a mixture of expensive phone technology and too much time catching up with soaps as a child, curiously not, however, leading to success in later life, somehow!

[Saffron]

It is indeed "to each their own" with parenting.

However, that is not the case with anatomy and physiology textbooks. There is a consensus in reproductive medicine. Yes, calling the external female genitals the vulva --the girl's "bits" that you can see on the outside of the body-- is calling the vulva what it is, by definition of such.

It's not wrong to call it a vagina (which incidentally also does not encompass all of the "bits"), it's simply incorrect. Colloquially speaking, the vulva is often referred to as the vagina, but the two are in fact not the same. As analogy, many people also refer to babies as being in mummy's tummy, when indeed babies are in the womb.