LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Rockets]

I wonder if the planters might be coming out at DV. The sign I saw last week on the southbound part of Lordship Lane at the junction of Upland Road just before the Court Lane turn is now revealing more of itself and it says...No through route to the right mon-fri etc etc. There is also a fully covered sign just before the Court Lane junction on the northbound side.

Could this be the end of the planters and the council is having to implement timed closures everywhere?

[legalalien]

The thing is though, that to fix the EDG and LL congestion, then surely Court Lane needs to be open precisely AT peak times (to take pressure off those routes)?

[alice]

I agree, I have suggested before that the broad avenue of Court Lane could be redesignated as an A road. Then it could be used as a new useful east/west bus route also possibly banning on street parking which would give space for designated bike lanes too.

[sally buying]

So if you don't have off street parking you cannot own a car.

[legalalien]

Or cars on court lane and cycles on woodward?

Sally I agree with what you are saying in that removal of on street parking favours people with more expensive houses that have off street parking. But maybe no right to park on street if you have an off street car park?

[alice]

All homes in court lane have off street parking- often for 2 or 3 cars. I made the suggestion because it would work.

[legalalien]

Alice - agree. I personally think opening court lane is the key to a solution. The block on calton could stay: maybe a point closure at each end of woodward to stop rat running, and close off the side streets from court lane other than dovercourt, creating a slightly reduced LTN?

[Metallic]

alice Wrote:

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> All homes in court lane have off street parking-

> often for 2 or 3 cars. I made the suggestion

> because it would work.

That isn't true. Maybe you should have a walk on it.

[Rockets]

Is the threshold for the timed closures the red sign or are the cameras going elsewhere? The reason I ask is the red no through route signs have also gone up at the junction of Lordship Lane and Eynella Road next to the library. Does that mean no-one will be able to cross that threshold during the hours or is it alerting people to timed closures further ahead? Apparently one of the problems in Lewisham, and why 47,000 people got tickets, was that it wasn?t clear to anyone where the threshold for the closure began.

Looking at the TMO it is very confusing and seems to suggest that you cannot pass the red signs during the operational hours - but if that is the case how do any residents get back to their houses? Also does anyone know where the cameras are going?

[Nigello]

The plastic covering the red sign ahead of the Court Lane on LL has come away revealing Mon?Fri and 0800?1000 and something else but I couldn?t work it out.

[Rockets]

I think that is the one that says no through route to the right....which is a bit vague. It is suggesting you cannot turn right there if you intend to use it as a through route. Which then led me to question where the cameras are to be placed because that will give us a clue how the council intend to police it.

Looking at the TMO it is not clear but it uses legalise jargon which suggests no traffic at all can make the turns during those times (bar the exempt vehicles) or enter the area.

Given this is all due to go live next week it doesn't seem clear from the council as to what is actually going to be happening. Does anyone have any idea as to me it looks as if all the residents around Court Lane and Eynella will be locked in during those times as there is no escape route with Townley being the same, or am I missing something?

Here is the link, can anyone smarter than me work out what is going to happen: https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/traffic-orders-licensing-strategies-and-regulation/traffic-management-orders?chapter=5&article

[snathani]

Rockets, hello. Looking at Southwark's maps, I reckon the signs at the LL end of Court Lane are probably just warning people that they won't be able to get to East Dulwich Grove along that way (i.e. by Court Lane > Calton) at those times.

I say this because there's a similar sign on the other side of the village at the Croxted/Turney crossroads - you'll be able to drive from Croxted Rd onto Turney Rd past the sign, it's just referring to the cameras further along Turney at the Burbage junction.

[legalalien]

That could be it - to tell people you can?t do court lane/ side street/ Woodwarde road/ Calton ave/ townley / edg because of the townley bus gate. That?s quite a message to try and convey on one sign!!

[Rockets]

Yes that makes sense, so warning people who were doing that dog's leg detour that there is now no way out at Townley. It's all very confusing.

[alice]

Metallic: For the mysterious tiny tiny few that don?t have off street parking. There are alternatives. Court lane gardens for one.

[KidKruger]

So, signs that are difficult to interpret.

What are signs for....?!

[legalalien]

I think you can go into and out of the Leafy LTN (is it Area A? Or B? I can never remember) via Court Lane or Eynella/ Woodwarde, off LL. I think you could also enter through townley from LL and turn left onto Dovercourt or Calton, before hitting the bus gate.

I think you could also enter from EDG in either direction into Townley and then Calton or Dovercourt, but not exit in the reverse direction because of the gate....

Fully expecting to be corrected...

[Rockets]

Do we think the council might be expecting there to be a big increase in displaced traffic along Lordship Lane northbound as a result of the timed closures in DV and are putting those signs in preemptively as they know people will try to find new routes?

[spider69]

alice Wrote:

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> Metallic: For the mysterious tiny tiny few that

> don?t have off street parking. There are

> alternatives. Court lane gardens for one.

So you want residents of the gardens to give up their parking for anyone who comes down court lane to park.

Perhaps you should consult Google

Dont feel you think things through just the mantra get rid of cars.

[alice]

The residents of court lane and court lane gardens clearly wouldn?t be giving up their parking. It?s on the road and available to all.

[sally buying]

Why are you talking about Court Lane Garens when you mean Court Lane?

[alice]

Thanks I?ve now edited previous post.

[legalalien]

There are going to be a fair few people getting tickets for bus gate infringements..

[legalalien]

Because you come up Turney and see the attached sign, with a bus gate ahead of you, turn left and the bus gate sign for Burbage is upon you, high up and difficult to see.

[nxjen]

Myths about LTNs - must be true it?s in The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/16/mythbusters-eight-common-objections-to-ltns-and-why-they-are-wrong?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other