EU Trade Talks Thread

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ... In other words, Britain has to either

> institute an internal border or try to avoid one

> altogether by staying tied to EU rules in

> perpetuity, even after it has left the bloc...

>

> Tom McTague in The Atlantic...

>

> Strange.

>

> When I mention the E.U. trying to tie us to its

> rules in perpetuity (above) the usual suspects

> full of indignation all pooh-poohed the very

> idea.

>

> However when a lad from County Durham who uses a

> curious mix of British/America spelling states the

> bleeding obvious you?re all swooning.

>

> Pass the sick bag ...

Keano, when you?re done chucking up your indignation, could you tell us please where you think the border should go?

No deflection, no fudging, just a straight answer.

There has to be a customs border *somewhere*. If David Frost whatsapped you tonight to get your view on it, what would you tell him to do? Where would you advise the border should go?

Because we have to have one somewhere. Unless you *like* smuggling?

[keano77]

As you well know, given that I?ve tried to explain it to you numerous times, the only body that would impose a border there is the E.U. to protect its taxes - ad infinitum

I?m sorry Sephiroth, you just can?t grasp that, and I cannot make it any easier for you

[j.a.]

So you?re saying that the UK would, and indeed should, have no customs border of any kind in between the EU and us?

Have I misunderstood?

[Sephiroth]

Brexit is all about U.K. taking control of its borders. It?s you who is obsessed with borders.

The eu isn?t imposing a border. Brexit and leaving single market and customs union require jt. Like breathing requires oxygen. And the U.K. signed and voted for the border in the Irish Sea

It?s literally what happened.

[keano77]

J.a and Sephiroth

No sane person would give two damns whether a chlorinated chicken left Belfast and arrived in Monaghan or Co Cavan, especially as it might be more hygienic than salmonella infected E.U. standard fayre.

But the E.U. (algorithms on legs therefore not sane) will take issue and insist on a border.

Therefore EU?s fault. What?s difficult to grasp about that?

[Sephiroth]

That?s enough now child.

[keano77]

Still waiting for that letter from your mother to start your deprogramming treatment Sephiroth.

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> J.a and Sephiroth

>

> No sane person would give two damns whether a

> chlorinated chicken left Belfast and arrived in

> Monaghan or Co Cavan, especially as it might be

> more hygienic than salmonella infected E.U.

> standard fayre.

>

> But the E.U. (algorithms on legs therefore not

> sane) will take issue and insist on a border.

>

> Therefore EU?s fault. What?s difficult to grasp

> about that?

So you?re saying that we don?t have to ?police? (for want of a better word) goods that cross the border from the Republic to UK territory? We just wave them through?

(Also, not for nothing, but chicken has to be hit with chlorine when the basic butchering process is not sanitary enough to guarantee safety. You might want to think about that.)

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Still waiting for that letter from your mother to

> start your deprogramming treatment Sephiroth.

Stop being a wanker. Don?t bring people?s family into it. Not cool.

[keano77]

j.a. Wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------

>

> So you?re saying that we don?t have to ?police?

> (for want of a better word) goods that cross the

> border from the Republic to UK territory? We just

> wave them through?

>

Au contraire j.a. (See what I did there, I?m pro-funny foreign languages).

I?m saying UK goods going from NI to RoI should be waved through given our superior standards.

[keano77]

j.a. Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Still waiting for that letter from your mother

> to

> > start your deprogramming treatment Sephiroth.

>

>

> Stop being a @#$%&. Don?t bring people?s family

> into it. Not cool.

Another 15 hour day j.a?

[Alan Medic]

> I?m saying UK goods going from NI to RoI should be

> waved through given our superior standards.

I think just replying 'bullshit' covers this one. If you want to act like a troll just use twitter.

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> j.a. Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> ---

> >

> > So you?re saying that we don?t have to ?police?

> > (for want of a better word) goods that cross

> the

> > border from the Republic to UK territory? We

> just

> > wave them through?

> >

> Au contraire j.a. (See what I did there, I?m

> pro-funny foreign languages).

>

> I?m saying UK goods going from NI to RoI should be

> waved through given our superior standards.

I asked you about ROI to UK.

You dodged the question.

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> j.a. Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > keano77 Wrote:

> >

> ------------------------------------------

> >

> > Stop being a @#$%&. Don?t bring people?s family

> > into it. Not cool.

>

> Another 15 hour day j.a?

You really are a pompous prick. Not worth arguing with, life is too short.

ETA - basically what Alan said in both his posts. You?re just being a troll now. It?s pretty tiresome, but I guess if it makes you happy...? Saddens me somewhat. I thought there was a debate going on here - a spiky one maybe, but a debate at least. But it?s just you getting your kicks by trolling Remainers.

[TheCat]

Sigh....chalk that up as the 3000th time in the past 4 years when the remain crew on this forum can't gets their head around someone else's perspective, they resort to the trusty old 'troll' label...

There's no debate here ja, there's you guys all circle jerking about how self-righteous you are and how stupid people who voted leave are. Occasionally some of us try to engage, but it's really not worth it to be honest as most of you don't want to hear a different view, you just want to hear something that you can mock. So you can smugly sit and reflect on how stupid the other side is....

[Sephiroth]

"no debate here"

A quick look at discussions across the EU, friends and family from EU countries - there is plenty of debate

And it isn't just us uk -based remainers in a "circle jerk"

There are existential and major condequences of the UK govt actions. keano in space of a couple of posts is claiming Britain has higher food standards whilst simultaneously saying EU shouldn't give a shit of Britain starts selling chlorinated chicken across the border

Just "sighing" and saying remainers aren't interested in engaging is complete arrogance

EVery single prediction made by leavers in 4 years has proven to be untrue - be it "no one is threatinging to leave teh SIngle MArket" Hannan, or "we hold all the cards" etc etc , whilst everything remainers said is proving true "this will be a shitshow with grave consequences for Ireland" - and for what? The current chaos

Not only do we have to deal with this chaos - we have to deal with contuinous duplicity and cherry picking

There is nothing to look at and be proud of if you are a Leaver - look at the state of it

UK govt promising it needs to break international law and you tell people like me off on here? Behave

[TheCat]

"Every single prediction made by leavers in 4 years has been a lie, whilst everything remainers said is proving true "

sounds reasonable and open minded....but apparently im the one who's arrogant....i have to laugh or i'll cry.

I understand you're defending your actions, that's natural, but I stand by my post above...this is not a pleasant or civil debate most of the time, it bullying, cherry picking, trolling, and strawmen (yes, you guys do all those things too).

I can (and have) admitted things that are negative about brexit, I can (and have) acknowledged this government's many mistakes in implementing things. But as the quote above shows, some on the 'other side' seem totally incapable of similar...which is why there is no real debate here Seph.

More fool me for regularly getting drawn back into it, after I regularly promise myself not to bother.....

[Sephiroth]

"

sounds reasonable and open minded....but apparently im the one who's arrogant....i have to laugh or i'll cry."

I'm just pointing out observaable facts - whole world can see it - only a subset of people in this country can't

But if I'm wrong I'm sure you will be able to point out the ways

[j.a.]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sigh....chalk that up as the 3000th time in the

> past 4 years when the remain crew on this forum

> can't gets their head around someone else's

> perspective, they resort to the trusty old 'troll'

> label...

>

> There's no debate here ja, there's you guys all

> circle jerking about how self-righteous you are

> and how stupid people who voted leave are.

> Occasionally some of us try to engage, but it's

> really not worth it to be honest as most of you

> don't want to hear a different view, you just want

> to hear something that you can mock. So you can

> smugly sit and reflect on how stupid the other

> side is....

You?ve completely missed the point, but ok. He?s trolling, pure and simple.

I think I?ll leave social media alone again. It?s just a toxic as the last time. There was a reason my initial post - directed at you - said I was going to only post once, because it was something I felt strongly about. I got sucked in to posting online again and I thought I was asking questions and discussing but according to you I?m not.

Ok then. I?ll point out you and Keano are guilty of what you accuse others of, in my view, but it doesn?t really matter anyway. None of this does. You?re as deep in your echo chamber as I am in mine, and frankly we?re all just caught in the churn anyway.

[Sephiroth]

the problem with calling Remainers "the other side" is that we haven't caused any problems. Everything that has happened since 2016 was foreseen and was not a problem prior to the referendum

As things stand on Sep 17 2020, we have Dominic Raab humiliating himself and his country, showing his ignorance of the GFA to the USA - the same USA people like him want a trade deal with post-transition

People in Ireland are genuinely outraged at Britain's willingness to disrupt decades of peace

And all because Johnson signed a treaty and put it to the UK electorate mere months ago and now doesn't like it (amazing how he gets to change his mind but the outcome of the referendum is sacrosanct...)

This is a massive problem - caused entirely by the same faultlines in the Tory party that led to the referendum itself - if I am "on the other side" how can I be in any way culpable or even "equally" culpable?

We have pointed out problems from the get go only to be handwaved away (and much worse - newspaper frontpages calling us traitors and saboteurs) - so don't handwave this away again.

[Alan Medic]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sigh....chalk that up as the 3000th time in the

> past 4 years when the remain crew on this forum

> can't gets their head around someone else's

> perspective, they resort to the trusty old 'troll'

> label...

"I?m saying UK goods going from NI to RoI should be

waved through given our superior standards."

Superior standards? What superior standards? If that's not trolling, then what is?

[Blah Blah]

They basically have no answers to the border issues, and they are real issues, and that is about the sum of it. And anyone that tries to navigate the issues is 'the other side' or 'project fear'. Now the time has come to answer for all those false claims and the best we can get is Keano saying, 'have no border customs checks and waive everything through'! Bonkers! How many illegal migrants will be in those lorries Keano, that you so blindly want to waive through? Have a think about that.

[JohnL]

Dominic Raab got 9 minutes with Nancy Pelosi apparently and she gave him really short shift.

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/91620-2

They took the knee for longer

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/jun/08/george-floyd-tribute-democrats-take-a-knee-for-almost-9-minutes-video

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> j.a. Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> ---

> >

> > So you?re saying that we don?t have to ?police?

> > (for want of a better word) goods that cross

> the

> > border from the Republic to UK territory? We

> just

> > wave them through?

> >

> Au contraire j.a. (See what I did there, I?m

> pro-funny foreign languages).

>

> I?m saying UK goods going from NI to RoI should be

> waved through given our superior standards.

That's English Exceptionalism :)

We are the country of Mad Cow Disease because we fed cows their own brains remember.

[malumbu]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Irish writer Fintan O'Toole wrote this (cut and pasted as behind paywall).

>

> What has brought the UK to the point of openly declaring its intention to break international law .....

Fascinating article but.... I expect half the nation would see this as evidence that of the London Metropolitan bubble and whilst we are naval gazing they live in the real world beyond London.

Anyway just a thought, nowt wrong with having in depth discussions and informed views.