EU Trade Talks Thread

[Blah Blah]

Newsnight last week talked to a haulage spokesperson who explained that export paperwork that took an hour before we left, now takes about five hours. Even if that is an exaggeration, it still signals an increase in costs that have to be passed on somewhere.

[Sephiroth]

Totally normal country

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/09/pm-launches-operation-bleach-strip-references-eu-tens-thousands/amp/

[Sephiroth]

Totally normal country

UK ?rejected offer? of visa-free tours by musicians in EU, despite blaming Brussels for permit blow https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-visa-free-work-musicians-eu-brexit-b1784600.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1610221935

[Trinnydad]

It seems to be "Deutschland ?ber alles" once again as far as EU solidarity on vaccine procurement is concerned.

It has been disclosed that Berlin ordered 30M doses on the quiet back in September in contravention of the EU procurement strategy.

If the 27 EU members can't trust each other to adhere to an agreement what does this say for the Brexit agreement going forward?

[TheCat]

Can we call this German "Exceptionalism"?

I've read that exceptionalism is apparently a very bad thing in the context of the United Kingdom (or even just England mostly)...so im sure the'll be plenty of folk along in a minute to berate the Germans....

[Sephiroth]

Looks like the German govt have been caught red-handed and I've read a few stories condemning them this since it broke last week

But it has nothing to do with Brexit as far as I can see? And I don't THINK many of is on this island can vote in German elections.

[TheCat]

I agree that its certainly not 'because' of brexit....

But it it does seem reflective of some level of dysfuntionality within the European Union as a political body/force....which may have been a factor in some people's decision to vote leave.....

[Sephiroth]

I'm not aware of any political body/force that doesn't have some degree of dysfunctionality? Happy to be corrected on that one

[KidKruger]

I thought immigration, ?sovereignty?, and ?financial benefits? were the reasons people voted Brexit.

Never saw anything in Daily Mail or Facebook about European Union being dysfunctional !

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree that its certainly not 'because' of

> brexit....

>

> But it it does seem reflective of some level of

> dysfuntionality within the European Union as a

> political body/force....which may have been a

> factor in some people's decision to vote

> leave.....

[TheCat]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought immigration, ?sovereignty?, and

> ?financial benefits? were the reasons people voted

> Brexit.

> Never saw anything in Daily Mail or Facebook about

> European Union being dysfunctional !

>

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I agree that its certainly not 'because' of

> > brexit....

> >

> > But it it does seem reflective of some level of

> > dysfuntionality within the European Union as a

> > political body/force....which may have been a

> > factor in some people's decision to vote

> > leave.....

Well.....I mentioned it at the time, but then again, I don't get my news from the Daily Mail or Facebook...i'd advise you branch out a little KK.....

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not aware of any political body/force that

> doesn't have some degree of dysfunctionality?

> Happy to be corrected on that one

Sigh....perhaps this one you can just acquiesce on given you're basically agreeing it shows dysfunctionality? Further, many remainers admitted at the time (and since), that teh EU was 'not perfect'....but on balance their preference was to work on changing it from within. For other's they might have chosen to cut and run - neither is an unreasonable position. Not every point needs to be a battle....

[Sephiroth]

This is weird - no-one was ever arguing the EU was a perfect organisation.

Me or anyone agreeing there is some dysfunction is not a "gotcha"

"neither is an unreasonable position." taken in isolation one could agree. But we can't take them in isolation. We have to look at the costs, and define what the gains could realistically be. And it simply isn't a neutral observation to say you can argue THAT case either way

[TheCat]

no its not a 'gotcha' moment. Im not suggesting it is. its just an interesting point, worthy of note, that seemingly you agree with, but are also weirdly tying yourself in knots trying to argue against at the same time (i.e its NOT neutral to be able oargue a case either way??!!!?)

[Sephiroth]

you spend way too long distorting what I say

Me:"neither is an unreasonable position." taken in isolation one could agree."

is not the same as

you paraphrasing me: "i.e its NOT neutral to be able oargue a case either way??!!!"

I went out of my way to expand and make the wider point but you just ignored it. So I'll say it again - once you tot up the real costs (not just financial) against realistic gains (again not just financial - just realistic) then it stops being a neutral case and you have to really stretch to say it's worth leaving one dysfunctional organisation to be stuck with a much more dysfunctional organisation

[TheCat]

Its funny how whenever a point is made that is counter to 'remaining', you always manage to expand it to the 'wider point', so that you can hark back to the well-trodden path of implying how much you dont like brexit overall....

fine you don't like it. You may have mentioned that before. But i'll say again, not every point has to be reflective of the ENTIRE debate....

As I said in an earlier post....this is just one small issue within the wider debate....of course a sensible person doesnt make massive decision based on one point.

Anyway...I sense we are talking at cross purposes to some degreee, as this has somehow descending into a pointless (no pun intended) discussion on which we both essentially agree!

[TheCat]

While it wasn't much of an issue back in the 2016 campaigns......yet ANOTHER tangible benefit of leaving the EU....im sure even the most ardent remainers will be forced to agree with this one....

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/13/yellow-mealworm-safe-for-humans-to-eat-says-eu-food-safety-agency

:)

[diable rouge]

Looks delish!...

 

[Blah Blah]

LOL Cat, I can't disagree with that one!

[diable rouge]

I'm a Eurosceptic, get me outta here!...

[JohnL]

The Government wants food lorries to have accelerated access through Dover.

All good but that means non food lorries have sloooooooooow access - and that's business too.

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> While it wasn't much of an issue back in the 2016

> campaigns......yet ANOTHER tangible benefit of

> leaving the EU....im sure even the most ardent

> remainers will be forced to agree with this

> one....

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/1

> 3/yellow-mealworm-safe-for-humans-to-eat-says-eu-f

> ood-safety-agency

>

>

> :)

We'll use British maggots thanks and I'm sure there'll be loads in the rotten food :)

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm a Eurosceptic, get me outta here!...

>

> https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article13708

> 880.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_Emily-Atack.jpg

Ha!...very good DR...that gave me a chuckle

[Blah Blah]

lol, some good ripostes above.

I noticed today that household goods made in Europe are not restocking in many stores and that has to be down to import problems or delays.

[Seabag]

And fishing, how?s that doing?

The Minister in charge has been very busy, but maybe on other stuff. Still, now Christmas is well over maybe she can focus on a bit more reading, or even some reading.

https://apple.news/AgZaMjQDqRZO-l_GdOmf_Fg

[Alan Medic]

I'd bet the UK decided to leave agreement that late in the day, so no one had time to examine it.