Recommendations for personal shoppers

[red devil]

MrBen, it sounds like you are ready to upgrade to Cotton Traders...good luck!

[Undisputedtruth]

Oh dear, it seems you can't put up, can you?

['bout now]

Not with futility, no.

[Undisputedtruth]

MrBen Wrote:

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> Back on topic.

>

> I'm pretty certain I will never go into some west

> end shops because they are playing really loud,

> crappy MTV muzak. It's supposed to entive people

> in but just has the opposite effect on me.

>

> But that's because I'm that 35 year old guy still

> wandering around River Island gradually realising

> that I cant wear any of it any more (and should

> have quit at about 27). When you get older it

> gets much harder so most people (if they ever

> cared about clothes) just become boring and play

> it safe. A personal shopper sounds poncy but they

> can help with that and find stuff in places you

> wouldn't normally go and break you out of a rut.

I tend use music as a rule of thumb to whether they're worth checking out. If they play commercial music then they'll sell commercial clothes.

There are plenty of older stylish dressers about.

[Otta]

Even if a funk bassist is the best bassist in the world (which he may well be), that doesn't mean that funk is the best music in the world. That is just childish logic.

Here is a good bassist by the way (playing with one of the best guitarists

I desperately want UDT's absolute favourite track to be used in a TV ad, and become a huge hit as a result!

[Undisputedtruth]

Otta Wrote:

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> Even if a funk bassist is the best bassist in the

> world (which he may well be), that doesn't mean

> that funk is the best music in the world. That is

> just childish logic.

>

> Here is a good bassist by the way (playing with

> one of the best guitarists

>

>

>

> I desperately want UDT's absolute favourite track

> to be used in a TV ad, and become a huge hit as a

> result!

I just hope he uses Right Guard, for the audience sake!

This was used for a Coke advert a few years ago.

Another example where commercial artists nicked from connoisseurs.

And from the early 80s, this:

 

[KidKruger]

I'm just concerned that pigeon-holing with music (or the arts in general) simply does not work.

Saying pretentious v commercial is a bit like saying it's Ska not Reggae, there will always be a subjective dimension to it and therefore as a catch-all construct it is useless, except as a vague way of asserting one over the other, which is what I think is being done above, to assert some kind of superiority or grandeur of knowledge.

[Undisputedtruth]

I'm more of a music purist, especially in soul music. I remember buying records on imports at Bluebird records.

[Otta]

Well said KK.

UDT, Jeff Becks choice of under arm deoderant aside, did you rate young Tal Wilkenfield's bass playing?

[Undisputedtruth]

Good like you said but it wouldn't get into my music collection.

As for KK, I like the early Anita Baker stuff but hate the more modern stuff. I like early Luther Vandross but hated his recent stuff. Same artist but different music direction. To suggest assert some kind of superiority or grandeur of knowledge is completely wide of the mark.

[Otta]

"Good like you said but it wouldn't get into my music collection"

Mine neither to be honest, but I was well impressed with her playing.

[Jeremy]

The Brothers Johnson were commercial/mainstream in my book. They were on a major label, had chart success, and made music which fitted in with the fashion of the time. I'm sure they made a tidy sum of money.

[KidKruger]

What about the bass player from Level 42 (who now runs a bar in Ryde, IOW) ?

Surely he's an amazing bass player ?

[El Pibe]

I'm not sure what commercial music is, if it's simply successful music then only an idiot would categorically avoid it.

I guess every other definition is simply a subjective way of conflating exclusivity with superiority.

We all did it when we were in our teens, it's a sign of immaturity to still be doing it in ones thirties or beyond.

As for what pretentious music is, that's even harder to pin down.

For me it's about the motive rather than an objective quality of the music. If one likes something for reasons other than aesthetic appreciation then that MUST by definition be a sign of pretentiousness, but it seems unfair to foist that on the music itself.

Although I challenge anyone to actually like Schoenberg.

However commercialism = pretentiousness seems to me about as arse about face a statement as it's possible to make.

Kylie or One Direction (to ignore my primary definition and slip effortlessly and misguidedly into my second one) is many things musically, but pretentious!?

[El Pibe]

But then I'm a know-nothing with no skills and even less self-esteem, so what would I know.

Of course, nothing!!!

[red devil]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> What about the bass player from Level 42 (who now

> runs a bar in Ryde, IOW) ?

> Surely he's an amazing bass player ?

Yeah, but he's terrible at pouring pints...

[Jeremy]

Pibe, for me, I think commercial means either commerically successful, or created with aspirations of commerical success.

I've never understood why people actively avoid commercial music, but plenty of people do. In fact, there are many out there whose stance is so hardcore, they make UDT look like a Take That fan (i.e. the lads who beat up Jello Biafra in Berkeley for being a "sell-out").

Although I do think it's a shame that so many people just listen to mainstream stuff, without exploring what else is out there.

[Brendan]

At one point during my teenage years I decided to stop listening to recorded music altogether on the basis that it was all produced for a profit of some sort and therefore insincere.

I remember those few weeks quite well actually. I was on a trout fishing holiday in the mountains at the time. It was very quiet. This was a little bit after I first started to experiment with marijuana and a little bit before I learned that trying to practically apply any of the bright ideas you have when you are stoned to real life is senseless folly.

[El Pibe]

I can't see why anyone would get into making music without aspirations of commercial success, to do so would smack of the worst sort of pretentiousness. I mean we've all got to eat haven't we.

But I'm with you about the narrow tastes most have, but then if music doesn't fizz your bunghole then I can't see any problem with having a bit of U2, some Beatles, the latest Adele and a couple of David Gray and Coldplay albums lying around. It's pleasant enough music and generally ticks most boxes.

I don't really think I'm pretentious I just like to find something that surprises me, but I guess I am something of a muso and there's probably a fine line between the two, again (as with most things) depending on where one stands.

** as usual brendan said it better than I **

[Brendan]

and all my friends laughed at me.

But that was nothing new.

It's nothing old either.

[El Pibe]

"Although I do think it's a shame that so many people just listen to mainstream stuff, without exploring what else is out there."

and of course the counterpoint to that is that it's a shame that people just listen to obscure stuff without exploring what else is out there ;)

[maxxi]

Whilst my personal shopper was helping me look for a pair of vintage Brutus jeans (with appliques) and some mauve 'stay-press' loons we chilled out to; The Bar Kays, Creative Source, Parliament and Leon Haywood... but we still listened to the odd bit of Kool & The Gang and the Jackson Sisters. Still, that's House of Fraser for you.

[Jeremy]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> I can't see why anyone would get into making music

> without aspirations of commercial success, to do

> so would smack of the worst sort of

> pretentiousness.

I don't really agree with that. Making music is a pleasure in itself. And there's a big difference between not really seeking commercial success, and actively avoiding it.

[El Pibe]

Obviously making music can be a great end in itself, but really we're talking about stuff you buy, not pub bands here*. Noone seeks a contract without aspirations of success, if they do they're either fools or dilletantes.

*and even they have to make money on the night, they're not charities are they, and don't worry I'm looking forward to paying my fiver at the half moon soon!!!

[Jeremy]

Most amateur (originals) bands lose money hand over fist! Even if a gig is well attended, you're lucky if you can cover one rehearsal and your petrol.

Even at the level above the amateur pub/club band - bands who can pull in crowds of a couple of hundred nationally and release material on a decent underground label - there are plenty in that bracket who are happy working a day job, and doing the band as a hobby. It's not really pretentious, sometimes it's a lifestyle choice, or an acceptance that the genre you play will probably not have mainstream appeal.