COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?

[pk]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> I'm only breaking the lockdown rules in a limited

> and specific way, officer...

I do wonder about the timing of this announcement

It?s been a convenient distraction from Boris? plans not to honour international law

[TE44]

Interview with professor Richard Esson, great points and refreshing to feel people who are sincere.

[Sephiroth]

You should be embarrassed for giving that video the time of day te44

[j.a.]

Well, on the basis that even a stopped clock is right twice a day (a TE44 is more like one of melting clocks that Dali painted), I watched all of that video. Yup, all of it.

30 minutes of my life I?m never getting back.

Yeah, yeah, I know TE, ?oh you don?t have an open mind, you?re such a bigot, you?re the problem.?

Whatever let?s you sleep at night. You?re still a dangerous lunatic.

[TE44]

Any points in particular j.a. do you believe professor Esson to be a dangerous lunatic to.

Its good to know you can sleep well knowing the people creating our new reality are keeping you safe, so simple to follow.

[j.a.]

Triggered much, you delusional nutter? I didn?t call him dangerous, I was referring to you, and that you couldn?t understand that from plain text speaks volumes.

Conspiracy theories are great, aren?t they? You don?t need ac yak proof, in fact the absence of proof only strengthens your case (and by case I mean delusions), because *of course* they would say that.

It was observed recently that conspiracy theories are the new religion. You certainly fit that profile.

[TE44]

Ok j.a. so nothing to say about professors views. I think your language shows more about you than me.

[Sephiroth]

Professor of what? Who is he and what?s his expertise and how does it stack up with experts in countries across the globe?

(You really think there is a conspiracy across USA, uk, Chinese, eu, African, Asian and the rest countries?)

And who is the woman? A quick google shows her to be just a conspiracy nut

So what exactly is the point of the video?

[JohnL]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Any points in particular j.a. do you believe

> professor Esson to be a dangerous lunatic to.

> Its good to know you can sleep well knowing the

> people creating our new reality are keeping you

> safe, so simple to follow.

Hes' Professor Richard Ennos I think

https://www.ed.ac.uk/profile/richard-ennos

Here's something he wrote to the scottish sun - seems he wants old people isolated and everyone else to be infected

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5630604/coronavirus-scotland-scottish-government-care-home-professor/

Genetics - linking back to Cummings idea of eugenics maybe ? Not sure.

[TE44]

https://www.ed.ac.uk/profile/richard-ennos

Sephiroth here is a link to professor, you probably googled him already. He has never been in public domain before as he states in the video. Im sure he says he does not know if he would have spoken out if still working, he is now retired. I suppose it depends on who you believe is being open and honest. Who is recognising the benefits and who really cares. This man was overwhelmed by the cruelity of what we are seeing. I have never saw or felt any real concerns for people from many of our government.

People knowing they are dying having to decide how they can work out there last days where they can see there families, disgusting.

[Sephiroth]

But it isn?t just our government is it?

I think this government have handled things as badly as is possible - but there isn?t some global conspiracy about this virus and the damage it does. Countries everywhere have locked down to some degree. Cases are rising again exponentially and because this government have wasted the summer we will suffer again.

But denial or pretending we can just get herd

Immunity is for the birds

[JohnL]

But his record shows he's into genetics - mainly in trees but he's probably extrapolating his experience to people (which is then eugenics (breeding people) or the old herd immunity aproach).

https://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/richard-ennos(184abdca-9907-4b83-a527-d7248d33d6b0)/projects.html

[TE44]

No it isn't just our government almost all governments have acted similiar, making the same mistakes and continueing to spread fear whilst at the same time taking away our choices and dividing people, families. As the professor says they never report any news that is possitive. There management is causing more deaths than the virus. Information is being withheld from us. A statement was made by Louis Appleby from uk prevention of suicide regarding reporting figures in real time. This is not a reflection on the system set out which often sees stats added for suicide as late as a year after. There are suicides where the police will not close the case, as it must go through the process but will say no suspicious circumstances. Mental health groups were looking for a rough statistic, not a solid figure but alook at cases in real time that were not being investigated by police. This did not happen, I would be very interested if anyone working in this field has been given any figures. We really have no udea how many people have died down to the policies put in place.

[TE44]

Johnl its fascinating looking at plants and viruses, fungi etc. It really shows how connected we are with nature. I would say look at eugenics organisations within people,I'd put a link but I'm out for the day enjoying the changing seasons.

[Sephiroth]

But what is this thing about ?spreading fear?

You make it sound like there is nothing or little to fear. We should be afraid. If I run at you with an axe, your instinct will be fearful of the threat. Being afraid isn?t a bad thing when we need to take a threat seriously.

Yes there will be side effects. Isolation, economics, mental health etc. All need to be considered. But none of them matter much if we lose too many people to a virus we don?t know how to deal with yet

[TE44]

Sephiroth, we absolutely should be frightened, of losing our jobs, of worrying about vulnerable people we love who we may not be able to come together with, sick children who won't be able to have there family around, people in care home who we already know has been treated criminally and some still not able to see there families. A media that is distorting the truth. A government that I believe has no empathy and is changing laws that will take away choices and freedoms we had. Yes I believe there is plenty to be afraid about. Every year there are viruses and flus that can be a killer to vulnerable people. Where the likelyhood of dying is a reality. I myself understand this, but this is how life is each winter. No I am no more concerned with this virus than I am with the flu that is no doubt coming. I am concerned and fearful of the continueing decisions being made by people I do not believe have our best interest at heart.

[Sephiroth]

So not just your government

But most governments across the world. Communist. Capitalist. Liberal. They have all en-masse confected fears about this virus ?

Every single one of them have idiots saying ?it?s just the flu? and they are all wilfully just ignoring such wise advice.

Tell me - why would that happen? Why? Don?t distract. We all care about loved ones dying alone etc

Just answer the question. Why are governments of every hue treating this as not just like the flu

[Sephiroth]

Let?s look at this piece of junk piece from some Brexit organisation

Only 8000 dead!!! Not bad - except that wasn?t the eventual total was it te? It was a LOT MORE than that in this country

And that was with a significant lock down. Had we not locked down how many people do you think the 50-60k total would have been?

Neither of us are experts. But you approach this with some emotional guff and predisposition to conspiracy. I listen to experts not just in this country but around the world. They don?t know everything about this new disease either. But locking down has saved huge numbers of lives. Lives that will help rebuild the economy.

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_apr_covid_and_flu

[TE44]

Sephiroth.what has happened through government policies world wide is not a distraction. How do you pick and choose what is to be believed when you know governments have tried to cover there mistakes.you say above none of the effects of the policies put in place eg suicides, job loss deaths etc matter much if we lose to many people to a virus we don't know how to deal with yet. This makes no sense to me, that people should be put through the most cruellest situations, lives absolutely lost, the whole world thrown into uncertainty, poverty a certainty, when for years they have been looking and planning how they would deal with a worldwide pandemic. We have seen confusion with figures, we've seen confusion with tests and an overall confusion with accuracy that has nothing to do with the virus. Hopefully the people who have made decisions that have took lives will be made to answer for there part in this. When the professor and journalist became emotional it was because it does matter what is happening to the vulnerable, the dying, without respect for death the respect for life diminishes.

[Blah Blah]

TE44, would you prefer if 40 million people died from covid over the next 18 months globally instead? Genuine question. How many deaths are too many?

Epidemiology and exponential growth have been done to death on this forum.

[Blah Blah]

You asked about suicide data TE44. You can find tables here (link below) but the first quarter of 2020 was in line with previous years. The second quarter (which is the spring/ early summer) shows a significant decrease on previous years. Figures for the third quarter are not available yet. Suicide is a complex issue and understanding a decrease is as valid as understanding any increase. It is quite possible that the decrease is the result of people being able to spend more time at home, without the stress of work life and other things. To assume the trend would only go the other way is a bit premature.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathscausedbysuicidebyquarterinengland

[TE44]

Blah blahAs II saaid the figures for suicide can take up to a year to be added to official stats. Only time will tell. Im not going to put links up, as although there are great concerns worldwide only time will tell. I believe 6million people die of starvation every year, what a shame the governments couldnt put rules in place regarding there governing and greed. 10million half price meals, great way to bring people together at this timm. Oh yeah, helping people. We can sit in a restuarent with how many people, but you can't be with your dying family. What about these deaths, or would you rather sit in a restuarant full of people worrying about the 40 million that might die???

[Blah Blah]

And as I pointed out to you, suicide rates actually went DOWN in the first three months of the lockdown period. Why are you always questioning the facts, even when the evidence is presented to you? There is no evidence as yet that suicides rates are going up in this quarter either. So just stop it please.

I ask you again, how many people are you prepared to let die globally from a pandemic? 40 million not enough for you obviously? That people already die from other things is irrelevant. You are arguing that we add another 40 million to that!

There is a very good reason why family were not allowed to sit next to a highly infectious relatives, in hospitals filling up with dying and serious ill patients, being cared for by overworked and stressed out doctors and nurses, more than a 100 of whom died themselves, having caught this thing at that front line. You have no idea what you are talking about and help no-one TE44.

[TE44]

What is the good reason now Blah blah for not being allowed to sit with dying family an assumption we'll save millions of lives.can you answer me where 40 million come from or are you just making up a figure under the global yearly death toll. What facts can you give me about where that figure come from. Or maybe its from another Imperial College expert. You don't seem so keen to acknowledge experts studies on effects of these policies. There are many people questioning the contradictory facts and rightly so or else we would all end of terrified of coming out our house. Imagine people having an opinion that doesn't fit in with the experts, the experts that are at odds with one another. A media we can't trust, a world health organisation that has been banned from countries in the world. Who are you being helpful to, outside of the EDF.

[j.a.]

Gotta say TE44, crackpot though you are, the way you avoid answering direct questions is admirable. Great dedication to your cult there. You?re still an idiot, but at least you?re committed.