A leasehold flat buying Freehold from Southwark council

[E8toSE15]

Hi All,

This is my first time posting here. Hope I found the right section for my topic. Thank you in advance.

We are in the process of buying a first floor flat in a victorian conversion with 2 flats in the corner of East Dulwich.

It is a leasehold, Southwark council being the freeholder.

We realised that the Southwark council requires applications and charges fees for any small alterations to our home, even for removing a cupboard or installing a shelf.

It might be our lack of experience in the matter, but I find this very odd, especially as a new flat owner, I think it's normal wanting to move and change furniture in our flat without sending applications and waiting for a reply for each small change.

So we thought an alternative would be to purchase the freehold from the council.

We also found out that the Southwark council is the owner and freeholder of the ground floor flat and it's renting it to a council tenant.

Could you share any information if you have heard or experienced buying the freehold from Southwark council where the other flat owner is the council itself?

I guess it won't be possible to have a share of freehold in this case and we will have to buy the freehold of the whole building.

One last question: In case we purchase the freehold, would the loft be included in the sale? At the moment the council owns the loft too.

The guideline of the URL below from the council sounds like it's possible but we're not 100% sure.

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/home-owners-services/buying-selling-subletting-and-remortgaging/buying-the-freehold-of-your-building-from-us

If you have any information on this matter it'd be a massive help for us.

Thank you.

[Pugwash]

My neighbour owns his flat - 1st floor in a converted Victoria semi. Ground floor is rented out by Southwark Council.

Southwark own freehold. Neighbour has undertaken interior redecoration and minor modifications. The previous owner put up shelves etc without having to go to council. He only went to council to get permission to install an iron staircase outside which could be classed as a fire escape. If you want to do a loft conversion you will need to get permission from Southwark.

Previous neighbour paid ?5000 as his share of repainting the house and was very unhappy that paint flaked off within a few months and complained to Council. When new owner purchased flat he repainted the exterior.

If Council want to do work or upgrade the property in some way they will expect you as the leaseholder to pay a share. We had both our front and back of house repainted a few months before our old neighbour had his done, and as a home owner we paid ?5000 in total - neighbour was annoyed that he was charged the same amount just for his half of the property.

[dimples]

I?m afraid we too own the least hold flat with southwark being the free hold . We own 2/3 of a Victorian house with a council flat above . Every five years they expect to refresh the paint work even when it doesn?t need it and a couple of years ago they were supposed to be doing major works to the property which weren?t done . The scaffolding went up for over a year , three days work done by the worst painters for just the window sills at the front and some pointing work . The back was never done and the painters were sacked for a bad job .they wanted to charge us over ?8,000.

Through a lot of letters and group meetings with council officials coming round they then could see the work hand to been done for which we were being billed for , so it was reduced to ?1,800 .

I hope you can buy the freehold it would save this problem happening !

[ElliotW]

This Facebook group is to help leaseholders and their rights and has a wealth of information and people to offer advice. Not necessarily Southwark specific but I'm sure people there could advise on dealing with councils and the general process.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nationalleaseholdcampaign/?ref=share

[SpringTime]

Yes you would need the entire freehold to take the demise of the loft and freehold over the downstairs flat. The tenant's rights are likely to be guaranteed so that they can't be ousted or compromised by your obtaining the freehold.

If it's just the flat itself you'd be happy with then you can deal with Southwark as you wish - their service charges on Victorian conversions are usually relatively cheap, but prepare for lengthy back and forth with them over their amazingly uncompetitive costs for planned works. (Maybe somebody's enjoying themselves at leaseholders' expense.)

You might be able to buy the leasehold flat and then buy the loft demise from Southwark though this will take time, legal fees, surveyors etc. The loft won't be included in the sale of the flat as is. (If the estate agent involved has half a brain and has proper paperwork from the vendor in place they should already know all this.) Also remember that the current occupant on the ground floor might be lovely and quiet, but the tenancy might subsequently pass to someone else not so sociable.

[E8toSE15]

Thank you, Pugwash,dimples,ElliotW,SpringTime for sharing the cases and advice with me.

As a first time buyer, the process of purchasing a flat is daunting though, this whole LEASEHOLD made me think of the real "homeownership".

One of the solicitors we contacted refused to take our case as below.

"I?ve never come across a situation before where I have seen them (the council) do this. I am not entirely sure that the council would be open to this."

Getting consent on every small alternation inside of my own flat such as installing shelves (?110), removing cupboards(?110), or replacing new kitchen appliances ((?45) costs administration fees. This is not real ownership I think. Most leaseholders would not afford Freehold properties. Then the leasehold has to take the onerous responsibilities paying the extra cost for enjoying the homeownership.

We keep contacting solicitors and council officers.

I hope we could find a way to purchase the freehold from the Southwark council to be responsible for my own property and my community.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

[Napoletano]

Hi all,

We do have exactly the same issue as we are trying to buy a flat where the freeholder is the Council. We're you able to buy the share of freehold from them? Thanks.

[Jules-and-Boo]

You can?t buy the freehold for one converted flat but you may be able to buy a share of the freehold of the whole property.

You would be liable for a proportionate share of freeholder repairs and that is a whole new ball game

[Napoletano]

Hi, thanks for your response. Have you had any experience with Southwark Council as a freehold? Do they usually allow to buy the share of freehold? In our case the loft is owned by the Council and the roof is in a bad conditions so we are trying to understand what is the best thing to do. Thanks for any suggestion, advise.

[E8toSE15]

Hi :)

If the other floor is willing to join the share of the freeholder, you can purchase the freeholder from Southwark.

If you cannot, you can still purchase the lease of roof space from the council and covert it (separate Planning permission required, but one leaseholder flat on the road could convert, so it's possible to convert too)

[Napoletano]

Thanks :) the other flat is rented by the Council as well, so probably the best option is to buy the share of freehold, if they agree?

[E8toSE15]

Hi, Check my private message. I've replied to you.

Unfortunately, you cannot buy the share of freehold if the other flat is rented by the council.

[JohnL]

Try the Leaseholder Knowledge Partnership for some advice also

https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/