We are indeed fortunate

[JohnL]

Yes - I'm glad to hear that (if we can deliver). I missed Kay Burley though - he wasn't really pushed like she used to do it :)

Huge numbers of vaccinations required apparently - something like 1 million a week. We need a good organiser (any recommendations)

[KidKruger]

Nothing I?ve seen so far says anything to do with vaccines will be well organised or even adequately organised.

But yeah, we can hope based on ministerial promises.

After all, it?s the only thing we?ve got.

[TheCat]

Let's assume that the govt pull it out the bag and manage to organise a massive logistics exercise and we get back to something approaching normality towards the end of spring (big if of course)

That being the case, we will likely be well ahead of many of our nearest neighbours. If we are...do we close the borders? Do we initiate a government run 14 day quarantine for any arrivals? Would it simply not be required with 'herd immunity's being in place once critical vaccination level is reached?

Surely we don't want to be vaccinating most of the local population, only to have arrivals from other regions to put that at risk?

I ask the question in the context of enviously looking on at my friends and family in Australia - where the borders are closed and even aussie citizens returning are shepherded into security guarded quarantine hotels as soon as they touchdown. While it's easy to mock them a bit for shutting down half of Sydney becuase just 3 cases were detected just before xmas..it's this zero tolerance approach which has meant that life has basically been as per normal for quite some time down there....

[KidKruger]

Add to that, that a significant proportion of the population may resist having a vaccine, in what universe does that help rid a country of the virus?

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nothing I?ve seen so far says anything to do with

> vaccines will be well organised or even adequately

> organised.

> But yeah, we can hope based on ministerial

> promises.

> After all, it?s the only thing we?ve got.

[TheCat]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nothing I?ve seen so far says anything to do with

> vaccines will be well organised or even adequately

> organised.

> But yeah, we can hope based on ministerial

> promises.

> After all, it?s the only thing we?ve got.

I agree.Surely now this a clear make or break for the government - and there really is nowhere to hide. Previously there has always seemed to be disagreement (within both the scientific and political communities) on lockdown versus test and trace versus herd immunity versus ocial distancing versus tiering etc etc - and this disagreement has been bourne out by the haphazard nature of policy and implementation. But surely now the objective is absolutley clear (and unlikely to have any alternative theory!)....I.e. Vaccinate as many as possible as quick as possible....

I agree that evidence thus far is less than positive. But surely now even these guys can't F this up???? (We all must hope!)

[Seabag]

They can and will fcuk it up, of that we can be fairly certain.

Logistics, delivery, action. None of the strong points for this lot.

Guff, high hopes, grandstanding, hyperbole. All those they?re ?experts? at.

It?s a bit like that management speak thing. If you could manage things then you?d have managed them in the first place.

Do not raise your hopes here.

[Sephiroth]

close to 1000 Uk deaths today

Many hospitals on red alert. Journalists trying to get footage to show the full extent of the problem, reportedly being prevented from doing so. Nightingale units being closed down (because they never had the staff)

I'd say "aren't we lucky" doesn't quite grasp the problem

[KidKruger]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Logistics, delivery, action. None of the strong

> points for this lot.

Yep. gain power, get yer mates in (inexperienced and wrong priorities), then represent the entire country in facing a deadly pandemic.

Perfect storm.

[TheCat]

I know 'red tape' will never allow it to happen...but I wonder if many of our closed pubs across the nation could be used as venues for vaccine rollout?

They are local...they all have significant refrigeration capacity, and if the government needs to pay venue hire for 'football stadium's then I'm sure most would prefer that to go to assist closed businesses....

Not every pub would be suitable,...and logistics of getting a few health professionals to each one would be tricky. But is it worth exploring?

Closed schools is another idea.....

[KidKruger]

Novel idea.

Maybe going forward we could get flu jabs and do urine samples in pubs.

?A pint with your transfusion today sir ??

[diable rouge]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know 'red tape' will never allow it to

> happen...but I wonder if many of our closed pubs

> across the nation could be used as venues for

> vaccine rollout?

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I know 'red tape' will never allow it to

> > happen...but I wonder if many of our closed

> pubs

> > across the nation could be used as venues for

> > vaccine rollout?

>

>

> 341326338

Brewdog have got me on retainer:)

[Alan Medic]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Novel idea.

> Maybe going forward we could get flu jabs and do

> urine samples in pubs.

> ?A pint with your transfusion today sir ??

It used to happen in Ireland:

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/10/06/pint-of-guinness-donating-blood/

[malumbu]

Cat, first of all the Brexit hype and now the Emperor's New Clothes of Brewdog. It seems that you are taken in too easily. Thought it would have been Spoons for you, cheap British ale (bit chewy at time and often at it's sell by date). Although even you may think Martin has gone too far this time with his poster campaign that lock down is increasing unemployment, conveniently ignoring saving lives and reducing overload on the NHS https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/tim-martin

What strange bedfellows you keep.

Trinny - i am sure that this is all a conspiracy by the left wing media and that Tim Martin is the only one true God. And Clarkson. Sorry two true Gods.

Ironic if the Spoons did open up for vaccinations.

[TheCat]

I think you'll find that the hype that is brewdog have stolen my idea from the EDF, not the other way around. They have now labeled it appropriatley as the chaps at Brewdog never miss a chance at virtuous self-promotion do they!

[Sephiroth]

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irelands-pubs-could-soon-playing-23247828

Not an English exclusive

[Trinnydad]

@ Blah Blah

From the FT today....

EU leaders have rushed to quell mounting disquiet over the slow pace of national vaccination campaigns, promising that everyone who wants to be inoculated will be.

Meanwhile the founder of BioNTech, the German company that pioneered the first vaccine to be approved in Europe, said the EU had been too slow to secure stocks of the jab, and warned of possible bottlenecks with supplies amid surging global demand.

France has been under the most pressure to accelerate its immunisation campaign, with only a few hundred doses administered so far, compared to tens of thousands in Germany and nearly a million in the UK. It takes two shots of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine for an individual to be fully protected.

[Sephiroth]

I think the broader picture is that all countries appear to be suffering a lack of coherent rollout strategy? I don?t think U.K. is especially well placed after the last couple of days confusion

[KidKruger]

Consistent in it?s in consistency, adept at confusion, consummate in failing to deliver.

Yep, UK Govt is very well placed.

[JohnL]

We're sort of going to guess the time between jab1 and jab2 which isn't what the manufacturers recommend

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html?referringSource=articleShare.

Not to say it won't work and I know Blair was one of those suggesting this but ...

[Blah Blah]

Supply is already an issue for the UK with many who were given the first Pfizer shot having appointments for the second shot cancelled because there is no vaccine to give them. Pfizer have already said there is no evidence of lasting efficacy after 21 days and that their trials did not look at anything but a two shot program. For the UK government to be claiming that does not matter is just plain wrong.

The Oxford vaccine can however be given within a 12 week window for both shots.

And let's stop the silly games eh TrinnyTroll? Supply is going to be an issue for all of Europe and the USA, in spite of the best efforts of manufacturers. That is just the reality of the challenge in vaccinating the entire world.

Meanwhile, we might want to ask why some countries have managed infection rather better than us, and see what can be learned there.

[Sephiroth]

Do we think this is wise?

Or lucky?

https://nyti.ms/3rNV2s8

[TheCat]

Its hard to know what the truth is in all this. Pfizer and astrazeneca have both said that supply is not the issue, where govt/officials are saying it is.

Of course based on track record, it's pretty hard not to think the govt is lying here.

I'm willing to reserve judgement for a few weeks to see how the ramp up of vaccinations goes in Jan. But early evidence does not fill me with confidence - the combination of a largely inept government, plus an overly beauractic NHS/public health system is not a good combination for swift deployment....and the country risks squandering the early approval and early procurement secured in 2H20....

[Trinnydad]

From behind the DT paywall today ....

EU didn't order enough vaccine, say German scientists behind Pfizer/BioNTech jab

'I was amazed' says Prof Ugur Sahin as EU faces shortage of vaccine developed in Germany

The German couple behind the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine have criticised the European Union for failing to order enough doses.

?The process in Europe was not as quick and straightforward as it was in other countries,? Prof Ugur Sahin, the billionaire scientist and CEO of BioNTech, told Spiegel magazine.

?There was an assumption that many other companies would come with vaccines. Obviously the thinking which prevailed was: we'll get enough, it won't be so bad, and we have it under control. I was amazed.?

Pfizer-BioNTech?s is the only vaccine to win EU approval so far, but the bloc had only ordered 200m doses until last week, when it ordered a further 100m.

That is still not enough to provide the EU?s population of 446m with a single shot, let alone the two required for the vaccine to be effective.

By comparison, the UK has ordered 30m doses as well as 100m doses of the Oxford-Astra Zeneca vaccine, which is also approved for use in Britain ? enough to immunise the entire population.

?It?s also because the EU is not directly authorized, but the member states have a say. In a situation where a quick decision is required, this can cost time,? Prof Sahin said in an extensive interview with Spiegel.

[malumbu]

Do you get a kick out of having a pop at the EU Trinny? You are coming over as very bitter and twisted. Thought you'd be happy now we had left.