We are indeed fortunate

[diable rouge]

I'm currently grateful for buying too many Christmas mince pies which I smugly scoff knowing that North Korean's could never dream of such western decadences...

More mulled wine Comrade?...

[TheCat]

Finally...after many decades since the movie's release, and many false claims, we find out that spartacus is actually Bob Dylan....

[Plough Man]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> FFS....

>

>

> Rant over.

Your little rant is fully justified.

[Spartacus]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Finally...after many decades since the movie's

> release, and many false claims, we find out that

> spartacus is actually Bob Dylan....

Thecat is out of the bag his mind

[Sephiroth]

"GPs up and down the country are desperate to start vaccinating their patients - yet cannot, because *even while* @BorisJohnson talks the talk about huge vaccine roll out, his government has failed to supply these practices with *any* doses. It?s sheer dishonesty & incompetence.

"

[Spartacus]

Ah

The joys of social media being used as gospel

Praise the great God twitter for it is always right and accurate.

Especially when someone says something I agree with but it's the devils workhorse when someone says something I disagree with.

[Sephiroth]

it's a counterpoint from a GP - it's as valid as an article in a UK paper

[Spartacus]

The tweet in itself is a valid point from a single GP practice, but then you spun it to try and show that supply logistics of getting the vaccine that had only just been approved are down to the government and not possibly down to production issues

After all it's not like millions of doses are sitting on shelves like toilet rolls is it ?

I wonder if Jezza had won the past election and hypothtically we were in exactly the same situation, would you still be blaming a labour government or looking at other reasons ?

[Sephiroth]

I didn't spin it at all - I pasted a tweet verbatim

It's the government spinning the fact that front line are being tardy - so regardless of production issues or no, it seems rum to blame front line

Jezza was never going to win last election, I don't like the man. But had he won, I know you would be blaming a labour govt even if it was doing a better job - so don't bother projecting onto me

[Spartacus]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "GPs up and down the country are desperate to

> start vaccinating their patients - yet cannot,

> because *even while* @BorisJohnson talks the talk

> about huge vaccine roll out, his government has

> failed to supply these practices with *any* doses.

> It?s sheer dishonesty & incompetence.

>

> 96785664"

Is what you posted yet the tweet itself said

"Covid vaccination- from the front line. My group of practices was initially told we would get our first delivery on 28th december. Then 4th jan. Then 11th jan. Now we are ?6th wave? and it will be 13th, 14th or 15th jan. We are raring to go, but have no vaccines. WHY?"

You can see why your post looks like spin to me 😱

As for blaming any government , I don't, apart from the Chinese one that is for not containing Covid in the first instance.

I actually think it's spreading fast due to how people behave, no matter what government rule is put in, by any government, people won't follow it and the virus goes "that'll do nicely thanks"

So telling me how I would react when I was asking you how you would react is actually a classic case of you projecting on me. 😏

[JohnL]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I actually think it's spreading fast due to how

> people behave, no matter what government rule is

> put in, by any government, people won't follow it

> and the virus goes "that'll do nicely thanks"

>

That's Government responsibility to persuade and cajole and threaten and the rest.

They aren't really doing that.

[diable rouge]

I don't see how someone can blame the Chinese Gov for not containing the virus when it first appeared, when almost every other country has failed to contain the virus when it first appeared on their shores. What special magical powers do the Chinese have that everyone else doesn't?

The only countries that have been successful in that respect have been the ones that went into full lockdown including closing their borders, e.g. New Zealand. Even if China had done that by the time the virus was seen as a serious threat (don't forget, some people at the time were dismissing it as another scare story, that it would blow over like previous SARS-like infections) it would've already been too late to have stopped it spreading to other countries. I read somewhere that with some of the early cases in France they think infection took place late autumn 2019, before it became newsworthy...

[Spartacus]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Spartacus Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I actually think it's spreading fast due to how

> > people behave, no matter what government rule

> is

> > put in, by any government, people won't follow

> it

> > and the virus goes "that'll do nicely thanks"

> >

>

> That's Government responsibility to persuade and

> cajole and threaten and the rest.

>

> They should do it all.

Ah

So are you going to suggest that we should be under a dictatorship or similar where free will is illegal ?

Sadly that's the only way that covid deniers and others who don't want to follow the rules can be managed.

Look at other countries where they've implemented curfews (France for example) and other measures, short of them adopting China's or North Korea's dictatorship, people still don't follow rules and numbers go up...

[diable rouge]

> Spartacus Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > I actually think it's spreading fast due to how

> > people behave, no matter what government rule

> is

> > put in, by any government, people won't follow

> it

> > and the virus goes "that'll do nicely thanks"

Actually, most of us were following the rules, then Bernard Castle and the failure to show contrition and/or apologise happened...

[Spartacus]

DR

Explain then how China closed its internal borders to contain it mostly to Wuhan but international flights / travel exported it to the rest of the world.

If the same measures implemented internally to contain it to Wuhan in China were used in the first place, covid would be no worse than the last SARS outbreak...

Hence why I'm if a mind to look at how the Chinese government let it escape to the rest of the world

[Spartacus]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Spartacus Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

>

> > > I actually think it's spreading fast due to

> how

> > > people behave, no matter what government rule

> > is

> > > put in, by any government, people won't

> follow

> > it

> > > and the virus goes "that'll do nicely thanks"

>

>

>

> Actually, most of us were following the rules,

> then Bernard Castle and the failure to show

> contrition and/or apologise happened...

Which is just a shallow excuse for rule breaking by people who weren't going to respect them anyway.

Did he corrupt the French, Spanish or Italians where people also broke the rules ?

[diable rouge]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DR

> Explain then how China closed its internal borders

> to contain it mostly to Wuhan but international

> flights / travel exported it to the rest of the

> world.

>

> If the same measures implemented internally to

> contain it to Wuhan in China were used in the

> first place, covid would be no worse than the last

> SARS outbreak...

>

> Hence why I'm if a mind to look at how the Chinese

> government let it escape to the rest of the world

What bit of ''it would've already been too late'' did you not understand?...

[Spartacus]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Spartacus Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > DR

> > Explain then how China closed its internal

> borders

> > to contain it mostly to Wuhan but international

> > flights / travel exported it to the rest of the

> > world.

> >

> > If the same measures implemented internally to

> > contain it to Wuhan in China were used in the

> > first place, covid would be no worse than the

> last

> > SARS outbreak...

> >

> > Hence why I'm if a mind to look at how the

> Chinese

> > government let it escape to the rest of the

> world

>

> What bit of ''it would've already been too late''

> did you not understand?...

To use your tone if voice, What bit of "how did China contain it" didn't you understand

Somehow they stopped it spreading internally but failed to contain it from getting out of China

Countries tried to stop it , remember the repatriation flights where people complained about going into quarantine

Yet places like Beijing didn't have mass out breaks (unless China have lied to us)

Not a conspiracy theory but a genuine question of why wasn't it contained earlier in the way that the rest of China was spared ?

It may not have been too late if China had stopped international flights and other transit routes earlier...but carry on shouting into the wind and not actually questioning the fundamental point of how did China contain it?

[diable rouge]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Which is just a shallow excuse for rule breaking

> by people who weren't going to respect them

> anyway.

Wrong, some people changed behaviour directly because of it, they had been respecting the rules. Trust was broken, which is kinda important when dealing with a public health crisis. Personally, the BC incident didn't change my behaviour but I understand why for many it did. They weren't natural rule breakers you like to paint, simply fed up with the 'one law for them etc'' attitude of the Gov.

> Did he corrupt the French, Spanish or Italians

> where people also broke the rules ?

Of course there will be people that break rules, but they are in a minority and as I said before, the majority kept to the rules. The first lockdown worked with respect to suppressing the virus and flattening the curve, precisely because most of us followed the rules. Do you seriously think we shouldn't have rules because of a minority will break them?...

[diable rouge]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Somehow they stopped it spreading internally but

> failed to contain it from getting out of China

For the hard of understanding:

It. Had. Already. Left. China. By. The. Time They. Tried. To Contain. It. Internally...

[Spartacus]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Spartacus Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Somehow they stopped it spreading internally

> but

> > failed to contain it from getting out of China

>

> For the hard of understanding:

>

> It. Had. Already. Left. China. By. The. Time They.

> Tried. To Contain. It. Internally...

First things first

The majority, not the minority, feel put upon by rules, regardless and the DC incident just gave them licence to use it as an excuse. Let's look at current behaviour with masks or anti lock down protesters , they certainly aren't Doing it all because one man didn't follow the rules

If trust is that thin then we are either sheep lead by the media or quite frankly doomed (captain Mainwaring doomed I say)

Using the castle incident is pure lazy excuse making for what people will and won't do

Secondly to use your "for the hard of understanding" line

For the hard of thinking , how the hell did China contain it so well in one Provence yet allowed it to spread to the,world. It wasn't just a case of a few people having it in small pockets around the world, a large number of people must have had it to create a viral load that infected so many so quickly

Therefore open your mind, look at why China could contain it whilst the rest of the world got it so bad and then and only then call me stupid like you basically did above !

There has to be some reason that a country of so many million where it originated from didn't see it explode in all districts yet internationally it escaped like a rabid beast.. you tell me how they stopped it and the rest of the world couldn't because it's not as easy to dismiss as the Tory's are feckless idiots ...

[malumbu]

Government do a lot to measure public opinion. Official surveys/trackers show that in Lockdown #1 most people did the right thing because they believed in it rather than the threat of enforcement. Later there was more resistance eg not believing the science, younger people being asymptomatic, conspiracy theories, boredom etc etc.

Independence Day (4th July) will have had an impact, and Cummings can not have made things better. On a point of principle he should have jumped or been pushed. I don't think any other PM would have stood by him.

That is not a scientific study, but it is pretty self evident, we have a PM telling us we have beaten the enemy, we relax.

[Blah Blah]

The crucial difference between China and the rest of the world is the draconian measures they took by comparison, and the speed at which they took them. This boiled down to intense enforcement of rules, everyone staying at home, wearing masks, everyone using a track and trace app and a traffic light system that determines who can move where. That is an infringement on freedom that is a step too far for all Western countries, although France maybe got closest to it with enforced curfews and written permissions needed to leave the home. Of course, the other question is one of honesty around infection and death rates. No-one believes for one moment that China have been honest about any of that. And because of that, it is difficult to assess if the draconian measures taken by China, have in reality been any more successful than any of the Wests measures. Better comparisons might be made with like for like countries, with equal levels of population and density.

[JohnL]

If you are at risk of hurting yourself or others you are sectioned in this country - lots of anorexic teenagers are every year (Someone related to me was so I saw inside the unit).

Whats the difference between that and wanting to spread a virus (and I believe some actually want to spread it due to the herd immunity conversation back in March)

[Sephiroth]

uk has suffered more covid deaths just today than Australia has since the beginning of the pandemic

Spartacus. You are an idiot with your china bollix