Should Alan Turing be pardoned?

[silverfox]

Of course not - foolish idea.

You cannot re-write history to suit modern norms and sensibilities.

We wouldn't sentence petty thieves to transportation to Australia these days. Should they all be pardoned?

[Marmora Man]

Concur

The current fashion for apologising for errors / sins of the past appals me.

A pardon today will have no impact on Alan Turing's. rightly deserved, place in history as a mathematical genius who played a key role in WWII and in developing the logic and philosophy that led to the creation of modern computing.

A related point for consideration - if AT is "pardoned" what does that say about all the others throughout history that were also prosecuted, imprisoned and belittled for their sexual orientation but were not famous? Either all must be pardoned - which is completely foolish (how would we identify them?) or we leave historical convictions alone.

[uncleglen]

We all know NOW that sexual orientation is not a lifestyle choice and therefore the best course of action to honour the memory of Alan Turing is to be outspoken against discrimination of gay people whenever the opportunities arise.

[El Pibe]

I can't even fathom MM's logic but that's neither here nor there.

A pardon is of course meaningless to Turing, but is a way of saying sorry, and I don't think apologies are bad things for wrongs, they help to fix things.

It's not about values then and now, what happened then was simply wrong, not to say fucking ungrateful. Few men can claim to have contributed as much to winning the war as he did; what he was was known and a blind eye turned, and then they fucked him up after the job was done.

My dad knew a polish lad who killed his wife and was slapped on the wrist because he was a Battle of Britain pilot, but hell, it's not like boffing a bloke is ke murder is it.

This isn't a sop to modern norms, everyone knew it was hypocrisy then, Jesus, half of the House of Commons had boffed blokes, it's trying to say sorry for how fucked up things were.

Part of me wants no pardon so that such atrocious behaviour remains a fresh thorn, so that anyone who claims they are proud of what Britain stands for is forced to realise that, even after empire and before we were complicit in organised torture collaborating with known human rights abusers, we could still be shitty.

[Burbage]

I'm broadly in favour.

But I wouldn't start with Alan Turing. It's not as if the decrimininalization of certain sexual acts is the sole bit of unfinished business. Lots of things have been decriminalized, including abortion, blasphemy and libel. Yet thousands suffered the penalties, including death, for having committed them. It is clear that, for the moral good of the nation, we must find out and pardon all those who have been imprisoned, fined, killed, humiliated, tortured or exiled for acts that we, currently, don't consider criminal.

As well as being morally right, a proper, coordinated effort would stimulate the economy through the wholesale employment, at public expense, of tens of thousands of otherwise redundant history graduates and struggling lawyers for decades. In fact, I see no reason why a permanent Royal Commission of National Apology shouldn't be constituted as soon as practically possible, in order to examine, cross-reference and collate the evidence found and devise some suitable National Ceremony of Pardoning to be held on as regular a basis as found necessary in order to bring much-needed comfort to the generations of decendants of those who hadn't, all things considered, really been very naughty at all.

That might, arguably, be taking things a little far. But to do anything less would mean arguing that the concept of all being equal in the eyes of the law is hokum, and justice is only due to people you happen to have heard of - an argument that, I'm afraid, is not just unprincipled, immoral and odious hogwash, but unlikely to succeed even with an unprincipled, immoral and odious legislature.

[Jeremy]

I would be totally in favour of a pardon, but for everybody who was prosecuted for homosexuality in the UK.

He was of course a brilliant mathematician. His contributions to winning the war were huge, and his influence on modern technology is immeasurable. But I really think this is a separate issue. He shouldn't be pardoned because of what he achieved, he should be pardoned because of a deeply unjust law and inhumane punishment.

[Loz]

I am a huge fan of Turing, but I don't think a pardon is correct for all the reasons above. But, I would like to see him celebrated a lot more. The man was a genius and played a huge part in winning WW2. He should be a national hero.

[alice]

go to the science museum - huge section dedicated to turing and his achievements

[silverfox]

alice Wrote:

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> go to the science museum - huge section dedicated

> to turing and his achievements

Nobody is disputing this Alice. Turing was one of the most brilliant minds of his generation. The fact is the law was the law and Turing fell foul of the law.

Okay, we all question that law now, some 70 odd years later, because ideas have changed.

My problem with the idea of a retrospective pardon is where do you stop?

I'm sure many galley slaves are due a pardon.

[Jeremy]

I am with you to a certain extent Silverfox - Turing wasn't the only victim of grossly unjust laws, and I don't agree that his acheivements should make him a special case.

[thusau7]

More info:

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[James Barber]

People executed in WWI for cowardice in the face of the enemy have been pardoned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4796579.stm

The difference?

Alan Turing happened to be gay. And his prosecution and villeficaiton led to his death. It turns out he was a secret war hero.

To me, more importantly people presecuted of being gay under past laws will still be alive and pardoning them could make a difference to their lives.

[silverfox]

There is much merit in what you say James.

It could be argued that if Alan Turing is pardoned now he loses the 'gay martyr' status which could weaken the cause of how unjust such a law was historically.

Further, a distinction has to be made with your example of WW1 cowardice pardons. All those pardoned are now dead. If Turing is pardoned then everyone convicted under laws against homosexuality logically need to be pardoned. While this may be just, those living who were prosecuted will require compensation for the suffering caused.

This brings us back full circle - where do you stop with such pardons? As mentioned previously, many people were transported for what are now seen as trivial offences

[Loz]

James Barber Wrote:

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> People executed in WWI for cowardice in the face

> of the enemy have been pardoned.

>

> The difference?

Well, the main difference is that the WWI soldiers have been pardoned because it is believed they suffered from what today would be called Post-Traumatic Stress. It's mitigation, rather than the law being changed.

What you are asking for is a retrospective change. That's very different.

[silverfox]

Now pardoned

[sebastien]

how?