what to do if a shop is not taking covid seriously

[fulfordf]

Hi All,

I want to ask what some advice is, if a shop is not taking the appropriate predations in this current climate.

I went into Barry road store yesterday, and two young man came in, not wearing any face coverings, there were no signs up, the staff were not wearing face coverings and no one approached the two men to ask if they would cover their faces.

It is very frustrating when a lot of people are coving up and taking the correct precautions, and most shops are being aware, but there are the few, (convenience stores I may add)that are showing no regard to the escalating problem.

It is such a shame, as small businesses need as much help, but it is not good when they don't show any responsibility to protect their customers.

This new strand is far more contagious and is having a much larger affect.

What do some people do if they see this, do they ask the shop to improve their stance or do they not shop there?

or do they get reported?

[Spartacus]

I saw a long dialogue on twitter today (and I know I'm using social media as an information source) that talked about a supermarket manager who experiences similar problems when customers don't wear masks.

The person talked about how they get abuse, despite offering masks to said customers and also how they patrolled the aisles to monitor compliance.

However they went on to point out that staff can't enforce the rules and the police are too busy.

It's not just small shops that face this problem and whilst it's not good we all have to do what's best to protect ourselves.

In this situation, maybe chat to the owners and explain your concerns and highlight that you don't feel comfortable.

Remember they are a small business who have over the past year supported the local community by providing an essential service during a global pandemic and managed to keep us all in essentials like toilet rolls, so best to discuss directly rather than going down the reporting route IMHO.

Edited to include the link to the twitter feed

[KidKruger]

I think it's limited what you can do without potentially being attacked. People respond horribly aggressively in some cases. On the train I've been told to F.O. and I posted on another thread recently that I was threatened the other night by a guy in a store I asked to put a mask on.

Shopkeepers are in the same position I suppose, difference is if they have an argument with a. customer about it, the customer knows where they are and can put a brick in their window (this is what shopkeepers must have to keep in mind).

It's very very frustrating if you're just trying to 'be safe' !!

[Spartacus]

Morrison's are leading the way but will this cause more non compliance in smaller shops if the anti masker can't get toilet rolls / baked beans from Morrison's ?

BBC News - Coronavirus: Morrisons to ban shoppers who refuse to wear face masks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55618408

[AylwardS]

Make your concerns known to staff but also to the shoppers who appear not to be complying. Peer pressure has its benefits.

Bear in mind this is difficult for staff - if they challenge people the reaction can be aggressive. A full day on your feet is something most of us don?t need to do. The added aggro is something I?d not want.

Can you raise it as another customer? ?It?s not great but its what we all need to do? ? Be polite. The person might have an exemption you can?t see. Generally those with an exemption will be ok but if its the 50th time you?ve been asked you could have a short temper - wouldn?t you?

We all need to do our bit, when we feel comfortable.

[KidKruger]

unfortunately our own comforts responsibility to wear a mask inside shops.

TBH the 'exceptions' I'm hearing about are pretty pathetic, really.

[lameduck]

The only thing to do is,

If the shop does not feel safe, shop somewhere else.

If they dont care for their safety, by not wearing masks

They definately dont care for yours

[ianr]

From news reports it seems that at least Sainsbury and Tesco will be following Morrison's lead. This for example from Sky: "Sainsbury's said it would put trained security guards at store entrances to challenge those not wearing a mask and those who were shopping in groups."

[Pugwash]

I had to do a Covid Risk assessments last year in a workplace, as this was a legal requirement to protect staff and visitors. All employers have a legal duty to protect their staff and customers. This had to be a written risk assessment which was available to any council officer/member of staff/customer who wished to see it.

My hairdresser informed me that he had to undertake a risk assessment, which meant that he could not have more than 2 customers in the salon at any one time.

I cannot remember whether it is the Environmental Officer you have to contact if you feel that businesses are not taking SD etc/mask wearing seriously.

[Blah Blah]

There are actually very few conditions that would render a person exempt. Most people not wearing masks have no reason for exemption. But while there is no requirement to get written proof or certification, the policy is unenforceable. My view is that if a store is not taking reasonable steps to limit the chances of viral spread, don't shop there.

[tedfudge]

I've been into Barry's without wearing a mask a few times before the new strain but have been wearing it ever since the new strain arrived. Small shop owners are concerned that they maybe attacked or lose customers if they keep asking them to wear masks and also it was not enforceable to wear a mask before but hopefully now it will be enforceable everywhere in a public space and in enclosed spaces to wear one. I was at hospital on Friday for a torn ligament in ankle while at work and there was ambulances outside kings college with covid patients waiting to get in.. so sooner becomes law to wear masks everywhere the better..

[Callie]

None of the staff in Barry?s were wearing face masks last few times I?ve been in also there was no one at the door of Co-op on Saturday to control how many people were entering the shop and it was packed with no social distancing:/

[tiddles]

There?s no social distancing in sainsbos

[Nigello]

I think a lot of it is due to the staff. Some have a chippy attitude - it's nothign to do with me, I hate the boss, I don't get paid enough, whilst others are just dim. M and S and CoOp on LL have a fairly substantial minority of staff who don't wear (or wear badly) their masks (and yes, I did point this out to the managers at the time, which is what I encourage others to do who see the same).

[mrwb]

Call the police?

Can't expect store staff to take customers on and force them to wear a mask. They can ask them, what if they say "no"?

Then you realise the police have been cut to the bone and our local police station closed.

[KidKruger]

A slight distraction/diversion, but Covid/mask related.

We just heard of a woman friend of my wife?s living in Switzerland whose family decided to get together for Xmas in her home in Z?rich despite restrictions, some of the family flew in from Sweden.

All have been ill apart from a 20yr old. The friend?s brother, 43, has apparently lost 50% of his lung capacity and is still in hospital along with the 83yr old Mother. The friend?s husband is in perpetual fatigue.

Be sensible guys, including wearing masks !

[JohnL]

Bring back the arrows (one way aisles) and marked spacings on the floor - I don't know why we haven't already.

[HamletHarrier]

My understanding is that workers in the shops/ takeaways etc that can stay open during lockdown are supposed to wear masks unless exempt, or where there are perspex screens in place for staff behind the counter. In those cases if there is more than one staff member they should both be wearing masks (unless one or both is exempt) and practising social distancing unless they are from the same household (i.e. living and working together).

You can report shops who are not undertaking Covid safety measures to the Council who will investigate if you provide them with specific details i.e. shop address and the concerns. The focus of the Council is engagement but then enforcement where there are continued breaches. A couple of weeks ago I went to Peckham and there were some shops where there were no efforts at Covid safety compliance. I engaged with the first of the shops, but then got a hostile response at the second shop hence went down the 'contacting the Council' route. I got the following response back (from a named officer) when I contacted [email protected], and copied in the Ward Councillors for the area.

'Many thanks for your concerns below.

Southwark Regulatory Services have been very active throughout the pandemic with officers patrolling and enforcing across the borough both in the week and at weekends. To date over 5000 business checks and actions have been undertaken in the borough. We have taken a robust enforcement stance and have advised, warned and taken enforcement action against many business premises in accordance with the various versions of the Coronavirus (Business Restrictions) Regulations.

In view of your specific concerns against specific businesses stated below we will look into the matters raised.'

The Council carry out visits to areas and specific premises where these have been brought to their attention - i.e. if you let them know about a specific shop, they will add it to their list of 'Covid compliance' visits.

The Council don't deal with shoppers who don't wear masks inside shops, the Police have the powers under the Regulations to deal with people who don't wear masks inside shops. One change is that the updated Regs for this lockdown require people who are challenged by the Police to provide evidence of exemption in order to avoid a fine (now ?200 for the first fine). I saw today that a bye law has been passed in Southwark to enable staff at Borough Market to issue fines for people not wearing masks (i.e. they don't have to rely on an already-stretched Police force to do this). It's unclear how this would work in practice given that someone refusing to wear a mask could also refuse to give their details unless a Police officer is present in order for a fine to be issued to them.

The HSE are also carrying out visits to businesses in tandem with local authorities. There is more information on this and advice for businesses, along with a Covid risk assessment template, on their website.

[Blah Blah]

mrwb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Can't expect store staff to take customers on and

> force them to wear a mask. They can ask them, what

> if they say "no"?

Shops can refuse entry to a person without a mask. Several big chains (who tend to have security staff on their doors, have now said they will be doing that.

[Spartacus]

Amazing amount of information

But as said earlier rather than going down the "report them and bite the hands that feed us route" the first point of call should be to talk to the owners / manager and express your concerns.

If there is no change of behavior within a reasonable time frame (say 24 hours , not 24 seconds) then escalation is an option.

[ianr]

HamletHarrier wrote at 01:40 today:

----------------------------------

> One change is that the updated Regs for

> this lockdown require people who are

> challenged by the Police to provide

> evidence of exemption in order to avoid

> a fine

But where in the Regs is this? I've not been aware of it and can't find anything new. The gov.uk advice page explicitly says otherwise:However, some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

Carrying an exemption card or badge is a personal choice and is not required by law.

( https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#exemptions )

And those of the other UK legislations all say something similar. It's open to an officer to question the person, of course, and to exercise his judgment accordingly before issuing any FPN. Even the presentation of an 'exemption card' needn't necessarily be regarded as conclusive.

[mrwb]

Makes sense for big stores, what about little ones like Barry road in the OP, can't expect them to employ bouncers due to the cost surely?

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> mrwb Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Can't expect store staff to take customers on

> and

> > force them to wear a mask. They can ask them,

> what

> > if they say "no"?

>

> Shops can refuse entry to a person without a mask.

> Several big chains (who tend to have security

> staff on their doors, have now said they will be

> doing that.

[siousxiesue]

.

[HamletHarrier]

Apologies was sifting through the Regs in the early hours along with various news stories so got that bit wrong. Thanks for picking this up.

[Pugwash]

Some weeks ago I was on a bus going to the Elephant when I noticed an elderly lady wearing a lanyard with the words I am medically exempt from wearing a mask written on it. Attached to the clip was a laminated card with something on it plus her photo (could not read it) I thought that was a good idea

Anyone could say that they were excempt. Hubby does not wear mask if he is out with me as he is legally exempt on the grounds that I have to lip read him due to the level of my hearing loss. Both of us wear visors. A recent email from the RNID _ states the following;-

The exemption allows people to lower their face covering to communicate with someone who relies on lip reading or facial expression to communicate. Read our guidance on face coverings.

Full details on the RNID website