Ethical Vegetarianism

[Lowlander]

Following on from the foie gras threads, how many people can claim to be honestly vegetarian (i.e. no quorn, battery eggs, intensive dairy)?

Is Jainism the only way, or is there an alternative for pure vegetarians as opposed to fake ones?

[????]

Oh good, another one of these

[red devil]

If you don't eat every meat product out there, does that mean you're a fake carnivore?..

[Isla]

what red devil said. jainism is pretty extreme and a ridiculous example to boot. i eat meat but I like my burgers well done, take that meatfia..

[Alan Medic]

Why does everything have to have a label? I haven't eaten fish or meat for over 30 years and I'm a fake. I?m not even pretending to be ANYTHING. I can claim to be someone who is honest and doesn't eat meat or fish. Label me.........please.

[BrandNewGuy]

Insisting that vegetarians must be "pure" is both weirdly aggressive and pointless. By the same token, Christians (of whom I'm not one) are against sin but don't claim to be sinless. That doesn't make them hypocrites, it makes them human.

[KidKruger]

I think if OP is going to use terms like 'pure vegetarian' or 'vegetarian ' they need to define THEIR meaning in front. Otherwise any discussion is going to inevitably fall apart because of people's differing beliefs in meaning / use of these terms.

Jains are I believe not a valid description of 'honest vegetarians'. Vegetables are not necessarily their thing, they eat nuts and fallen stuff - from my experience of working and eating with a Jain couple I've known. I think it depends how seriously they want to follow the precepts of their ism.

The labelling thing is a bit of a pitfall when discussing consumption habits of foods (veg or meat), it's mainly come about in conversations on EDF lately because one person accuses another of not being a true XXXXXXX (insert your label here) as a reaction to whoever has thrown an accusation at them for being cruel / selfish / etc.

People eat what they want to, yet some people want to influence and (seemingly, in some cases, control) exactly what you eat. They will attack you in EDF for what you eat or how its manufactured but their concern does not extend to knocking on doors to have proper and real face to face conversation with you about it, in the same way that other interferers seem to have the gumption to do, such as born again Christians, Mormons and political parties.

AM you don't need a label as you well understand, you just eat what you want for whatever reasons you have, all your choice. And hopefully you're happy with that (and healthy !) and don't have this perverse need to lecture others on how you're right and they're wrong !

[KidKruger]

I know some 'vegetarians' (their phrase, not mine, and they really believe it) who very occasionally taste free-range chicken or have a bacon roll, maybe once every couple of years, just for the taste.

I presume THESE people are regarded as 'purer' than full-time meat-eaters, but not as pure as 'real vegetarians', in the pecking order of who's morally better than who ?

[Alan Medic]

KidKruger Wrote:

>

> AM you don't need a label as you well understand,

> you just eat what you want for whatever reasons

> you have, all your choice. And hopefully you're

> happy with that (and healthy !) and don't have

> this perverse need to lecture others on how you're

> right and they're wrong !

What? Who am I lecturing and where do I claim I am right? I don't see this as a right or wrong issue KK.

[KidKruger]

No AM, I'm not saying you lecture anyone, or claim to be right or wrong. I do say that you've made choices and good for you and I hope you don't take the same tone as others have on other threads where it descends into moral-chucking.

Please read what I wrote I took care to try and avoid inferences like that.

If I thought you were interfering with people's views I would have said so, not saying that at all.

[Alan Medic]

The whole point of my post KK was that by some definitions I am a vegetarian but I couldn't care less if others choose to eat meat. I misunderstood what you wrote but if you read it again you will see how I did that. I take your point now.

[DulwichFox]

I was Vegetarian for 2+ Years...

Never actually up rooted a single carrot during that time.

I left the killing to somone else..

Fox

[ianr]

How long does it take for a carrot to die?

[KidKruger]

The Jains (some of them) believe uprooting vegetables from the ground may harm creatures living in the soil, so they abstain from root veg.

[DulwichFox]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How long does it take for a carrot to die?

OMG... Did I eat it why it was still ALIVE.???

Fox.

[KidKruger]

When they discover that veg feel pain just like animals, then what !!??

[Alan Medic]

......then I'll start eating meat.

[the-e-dealer]

yes because if we discover we cannot get a wholesome tasty nutritious meal without hurting something then may as well eat meat!

[Lowlander]

Many vegetarians are so because they care about the welfare of animals.

Yet they drink mass produced milk from intensive farms or eat eggs from battery hens.

Not their fault, but they pick on meat eaters and foie gras without considering the conditions the cows/hens they enjoy the products of.

The solution is to eat free range eggs and ethically produced milk (e.g. organic, Guernsey, local types or no milk at all).

If they do so, I'll accept their anti-foie-gras arguments. Otherwise they are rank hypocrites.

PS, am happy to hear counter-arguments or corrections in good grac.

[BrandNewGuy]

"Rank hypocrites"? Nice... Why do people get so het up about vegetarians? It mystifies me.

[the-e-dealer]

many vegetarians use free range eggs and soya milk because of the problem with milk production. Many meat eaters eat ethically produced meat. Which I applaud. But I dont really mind what you eat. Really i dont. Go ahead

[BrandNewGuy]

Most people (who don't necessarily profess an '-ism') love their children and believe children should be nurtured and protected. However most people also buy products which directly or indirectly exploit child labour and misery. Many people give to Third World charities to help the poor have access to clean drinking water, however we are so profligate that we used treated and cleaned drinking water to flush our toilets. Many or most people have savings, insurance policies, shares or pensions that directly invest in activities and businesses with which they'd profoundly disagree...

I could go on, but I wouldn't call any of the above people "rank hypocrites" and I see them as little different from the "ethical vegetarians" taking a pounding for not being Jains. The world is complex, values clash, black and white is always grey, information is messy and awkward, and intentions are elusive. We can only be grateful that people try to do good - or at least try to do no harm.

[El Pibe]

Wot bng said.

[*Bob*]

And so the moral of the story is..

"It doesn't matter who you are or what you do: someone, somewhere - thinks you're a murderer"

[El Pibe]

More that our world is too complex to fool yourself into thinking one can be a paragon of virtue doing no harm in the world, so what's the point in getting snotty about it to those who's concerns about what defines harm may be less stringent, bandying about terms like, disgusting, rank hypocrisy and so on.

Life's too fecking short.