Sunlit uplands. Are we there yet?

[TheCat]

Probably too much analysis of actual data in this report for this forum, and not enough flimsy hyperbole about the brexit bogeyman....

https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/what-impact-is-brexit-having-on-the-uk-economy/

[Sephiroth]

Julian Jessop

Snigger

You and truss have same problem. Detached from reality listening to the same tiny coterie of libertarian right

Screaming at markets they are wrong and remoaners are at fault.

[Sephiroth]

The authors of that report are (along with Minford) a tiny, tiny self-satisfied group who have been in denial for years

Of course, of COURSE cat promotes their shite as the country drives into a brick wall and he leaves the country with his pinky finger at his lips, going “whoopsie. Quite the news you have here”

I urge people to read that report. Then read everything else they have written in subject over the years and compare with reality. Complete fantasists. Just like cat

[TheCat]

Isn't it funny how you don't have anything insightful to say about the actual factual numbers quoted in the report...

You can disagree with opinions and disagree with forecasts..but the hard numbers are what they are... I'm sorry they inconviently don't align with your views... Facts can be a real b#gger like that.

But anyway.... I'm sure you will remind me that 'everyone' just 'knows' that the whole thing is a total 'disaster', apart from 'fanatics'. But given I'm the one quoting numbers and presenting comprehensive analysis as a means of having a balanced and informed discussion on the impacts thus far.... And you're the one blindly dismissing it without making even one counter argument, and probably haven't even bothered to read the report because you know you won't like it... I guess you really must ask yourself who the 'fanatic' is.....

As an aside, your indignant and totally batsh-t crazy rage at my upcoming relocation really is an amusing and welcome bonus to making the move....

[zerkalo]

It looks like reality is finally catching up with the Brexit utopia and its fanatical supporters. Even the Telegraph now dares to admit this has ended up being the shambles they once mocked as 'project fear'.

[diable rouge]

Explainer video from the Financial Times: The Brexit Effect...

[Sephiroth]

I’d say we could all guess which way this guy voted in 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/30/dover-petrol-bomb-immigration-centre-border-force?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[malumbu]

A true patriot not a tofu Woke.

Oh wait a sec, haven't heard from Cat recently 😟

[TheCat]

I’d say we could all guess which way this guy voted in 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/30/dover-petrol-bomb-immigration-centre-border-force?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

You really are a hateful spiteful person aren't you?

There's been a violent attack and a man is dead.

The motivation is unknown.

Yet you see it as yet another opportunity to score cheap points over brexit.

Disgusting.

[Sephiroth]

“Motivation is unknown”

Sure. Suck your thumb, rock back and forth and tell yourself that over and over again

I’d say a man who attacks an immigration centre has a pretty clear motivation.

(Immigration centres that are in and of themselves disgusting creations, driven by we know what)

I’m not scoring cheap points. What’s happened is clear

[Sephiroth]

Let’s hope the local MP hasn’t been making any cheap shots

Oh look. Here she was just this morning

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11368897/amp/NATALIE-ELPHICKE-Left-admit-no-refugee-crisis-simply-illegal-immigration.html

[Sephiroth]

Kelvin Mackenzie (so a man with form) tweeted this in last hour

"While it's clear the man who threw 3 petrol bombs at a migrant centre in Dover and then killed himself was deranged, the real story is of great tensions in the town among worried residents. Who can blame them? Another 990 illegals arrived yesterday. Rishi must stop the tide."

I would say people like HIM are the disgusting people Cat, wouldn't you agree? "illegals". "tide". Absolute filthy language dog whistling to the sort of person who might kill and MP or bomb an immigration centre

But you choose to call ME out?

"stop the tide" - no allegorical stories about anyone trying to do THAT either

[diable rouge]

This deliberate & inciteful hatred of humans, in this case refugees, is all they've got. It's all they've ever had. It's how Brexit happened. It's how Gullis ended up in Parliament & Braverman in the Cabinet. It's disgusting & wrong & the next shameful chapter has barely started.

They used Farage's base racism to get Brexit over the line. Some of them quite happily, some of them holding their noses. Then Brexit made *everything* worse so they're resurrecting Farage's base racism to distract from the absolute mess they've made. No 'patriot' would let them.

Braverman's fascistic soundbites in Parliament aside, t's the Lexiters I have the most scorn for, they knowingly climbed into the Brexit bed with racists like Farage.

Shameless doesn't even begin to describe them...

[diable rouge]

And what racist Brexit supporters like Farage and Braverman won't tell you is that Brexit has made it harder for the UK to legitimately return asylum seekers to the EU than it was when we were in the EU, so they demonize them instead...

[TheCat]

And what racist Brexit supporters like Farage and Braverman won't tell you is that Brexit has made it harder for the UK to legitimately return asylum seekers to the EU than it was when we were in the EU, so they demonize them instead...

 

So brexit has made it HARDER to eject asylum seekers....

Ergo.... remainers would prefer a situation when it was easier to get rid of them?

[TheCat]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/02/europes-climate-warming-at-twice-rate-of-global-average-says-report

Phew, lucky for us the brexiteers won the day and we got out of the spiralling temps in the EU.....the remainers lied to you about not being planet arsonists....

[diable rouge]

So brexit has made it HARDER to eject asylum seekers....

Ergo.... remainers would prefer a situation when it was easier to get rid of them?

 

Missed this due to page ticking over.

Nice try at sophistry Cat, but you know very well that wasn't what I was saying.

When we were in the EU the numbers of asylum seekers that were returned were small, a Guardian report last year quoted ''a few hundred'' in 2020, and if for legitimate reasons, I'm fine with that. it's not about 'getting rid of them'.

The point I was making is the same as in that last paragraph, that Brexit promised that the UK would 'take back control' of our borders, and once again when Brexit meets reality, the opposite is true. We have less control, so much so we've also ended up with an internal border within the UK.

I don't speak for all Remainers but I like to think that the vast majority want a fair and humane asylum system, whereby the UK takes in it's fair share of asylum seekers subject to the usual legalities (at the moment the UK languishes near the bottom). That it doesn't try and deport asylum seekers to Rwanda without going through any asylum processing. That it doesn't keep them in squalid, overcrowded conditions so that cases of Scabies and Diphtheria arise. That it doesn't dogwhistle to racists/xenophobes with fascistic soundbites of 'invasions'.

I note this morning that Belize has already distanced itself from the report that Braverman was looking to extend the scheme to include other countries, describing it as ''inhumane''.

Way to go, Global Britain...

[TheCat]

Sorry ..I just thought we were saying stuff and linking it to brexit even if it has f#ck all to do with it....

[TheCat]

In all seriousness...DR you seem like an intelligent (while chippy😂) chap....so why do you willfully make statements that are just complete cr@p..

Less control of the borders?

I mean come on....all European countries have experiencesd a rise in those seeking asylum due to various conflicts etc. Also, the overall numbers of net migration are similar to prebrexit...but now massively weighted toward more qualified and skilled individuals...due to 'the control'...how is that a bad thing?

[diable rouge]

I'm sure even you can concede that in relation to Northern Ireland, the UK couldn't exert control over it's border with Ireland and therefore ended up with a deal it didn't want.

Brexit has indeed given more control of immigrants coming from the EU, but at the expense of our own loss of FoM across the EU.

All we've done is replace one set of immigrants with another, while in the process losing our right of FoM and gaining nothing in return. To me and many others that's a big negative trade-of.

Call me a cynic, but I reckon those Brexit voters that were primarily concerned about EU immigration and were wiling to lose FoM (although numerous tabloid stories would suggest many thought they wouldn't) aren't particularly enamoured that we now have more net immigration post-Brexit. And call me an even bigger cynic when I say a not insignificant % of those are also genuine racist/xenophobes and aren't best pleased that a lot of these alternative immigrants are 'non-white'.

You may not think events like the small boats are Brexit related but they are to the public as a whole,

The inference of a populist soundbite like ''take back control of our borders'' was that there would be control over immigration numbers i.e. numbers would come down, not control of what type of immigrant comes to the UK and especially not a resultant higher number. So when certain Brexit voters see the small boats they see a Gov not taking control of it's borders. It's irrelevant to them that this may or not be happening in other countries.

So once again we have a Gov that has managed to pee off all sides of the debate, hence why in a poll yesterday circa 90% think the Gov is handling immigration badly. That will continue to be Brexit's problem, promised easy solutions to complex problems that unsurprisingly fail to deliver.

Re. ''more qualified and skilled individuals'', have you got the data that shows this?

My own personal non-data view is that pre-Brexit there was a natural balance between low and high-skilled immigration, which to me seems far more desirable than immigration ''massively weighted'' on one particular side. What's the point of having lots of captains if you have no one in the engine room to run the boat?

The hospitality industry is currently crying out for lower-skilled workers who disappeared post-Brexit...

[Sephiroth]

Catty has wanged on about this in the past as well. Not just any data protection. BWITISH!!! DATA PROTECTION!!

So let’s see how this one goes eh?

(Spoiler: nowhere meaningful at all)

“Big cheer for Culture secretary Michelle Donelan as she announces plans to replace GDPR with a new "British Data Protection" plan focused on commonsense while protecting data privacy.

It will be a "British system of data protection," she says. Big cheer from the audience. #CPC22”

 

Let’s see how this one goes eh?

Shockingly. Not well

https://www.politico.eu/article/we-were-taken-for-fools-meps-fume-at-uk-data-protection-snub/

[Sephiroth]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/10/brexit-next-boss-foreign-workers-uk-lord-wolfson

of course it's not the Brexit you wanted wolfie - because Brexit was never defined and everytime anyone tries to do anything brexity, loads of other brexity people go "that's not MY Brexit"

So if Wolfson gets HIS Brexit, loads of anti-immigration leavers will scream about that

Sack of rats

[zerkalo]

Exactly that. If the winning point during the 2016 referendum was the fact that Brexit was so ambiguous, undefined and that it meant anything to anyone it is going to be precisely the same thing that will prove in time to be the cause of its great unravelling.

[diable rouge]

This is why we should've had a 2nd Ref on the final deal, instead of May kowtowing to the ERG Brextremists.

As with the GOP and Trump, until the Tories are rid of them they will never be a democratic functioning party fit to govern...

[TheCat]

Probably too much analysis of actual data in this report for this forum, and not enough flimsy hyperbole about the brexit bogeyman....

https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/what-impact-is-brexit-having-on-the-uk-economy/

 

I'll just leave this comprehensive review of economic data here for a second time....so someone can please point me to the obvious data which proves brexit has been a total disaster....

No it hasn't been a roaring success either (largely through lack of any meaningul diversion from previous policy in my view)..at least I have the objectivity to admit that...Overall, apart from the higher blood pressure of some EDF remainers, the whole thing has actually been a a bit of a non-event from a national economic perspective....certainly when considered versus other economic events in recent years...for all the angst, it's really neither here nor there to be honest....so was it worth the trouble? Probably not at this point....

But I keep being told its absolutely clear that its a total disaster....although no one seems to be able to isolate the 'obvious' specific economic data that proves this...

And no, snooty, dismissive remarks can't really be seen as 'data' I'm sorry to say...