Floorboards over concrete?

[Sue]

red devil Wrote:

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>

> If you go for units with a fascia/kick plate, then

> you just need to run your new floor finish beyond

> the back of the fascia, usually just short of the

> legs that support the units. These legs are

> adjustable so will take up any difference in the

> level...

xxxxxxxx

Yes I think that's what I will do probably, thanks.

[Sue]

OK you brilliant kitchen people, another question!

The builder who told me I couldn't have floorboards over concrete also told me I couldn't have a window down to the level of the sink because "water would go behind the taps and sit on the work surface, that's why you have a splashback".

Since then I've been noticing where the water goes when the taps are running, and I've never seen any go behind the taps ....

Any thoughts?

At present, my kitchen window is the only one in the house which I can see my garden from, grammar, so I want to make it as big as possible. At present it's quite small. I can't see any way to have a sliding glass door there without a massive redesign/rebuilding work, which I don't want to do.

[Huggers]

You said you hate laminate, but have you discovered real lino? it's wonderful but very expensive.

how about two windows?

[MrBen]

Sue Wrote:

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> OK you brilliant kitchen people, another

> question!

>

> The builder who told me I couldn't have

> floorboards over concrete also told me I couldn't

> have a window down to the level of the sink

> because "water would go behind the taps and sit on

> the work surface, that's why you have a

> splashback".

Quotes like this really bug me about your average British builder. You're the customer and so you can have whatever you want really provided you know what that is. It sounds like your typical fob off because knocking out a window is extra work and may involve another skill set. Very few things are technically impossible. Some are inadvisable for practical reasons but, within reason, this doesn't sound like one of them!

You've had a bad experience previously but I'm sure there might be someone who does architecture or design on this friendly forum who could give you an initial view if you send them a few pics.

[Sue]

Huggers Wrote:

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> You said you hate laminate, but have you

> discovered real lino? it's wonderful but very

> expensive.

> how about two windows?

xxxxxx

I know real lino is very lovely, my daughter has it in her bathroom in a sunny yellow shade. However her bathroom is a hell of a lot smaller than my kitchen, in which it would cost a fortune!

My main criterion in the kitchen is to match the floor with the rest of the house, otherwise there are many possibilities!

I already have a bay window at the other end of the room, however that just looks onto a wall with climbers on. I'm not sure what you mean by two windows? In fact at present there are three at the end behind the sink, I'm not that bothered about the number of windows, just the total expanse of glass so that I can see as much of my garden as possible.

[Sue]

MrBen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > OK you brilliant kitchen people, another

> > question!

> >

> > The builder who told me I couldn't have

> > floorboards over concrete also told me I

> couldn't

> > have a window down to the level of the sink

> > because "water would go behind the taps and sit

> on

> > the work surface, that's why you have a

> > splashback".

>

> Quotes like this really bug me about your average

> British builder. You're the customer and so you

> can have whatever you want really provided you

> know what that is. It sounds like your typical fob

> off because knocking out a window is extra work

> and may involve another skill set. Very few

> things are technically impossible. Some are

> inadvisable for practical reasons but, within

> reason, this doesn't sound like one of them!

>

> You've had a bad experience previously but I'm

> sure there might be someone who does architecture

> or design on this friendly forum who could give

> you an initial view if you send them a few pics.

xxxxxxx

I haven't really got very far with this yet - I contacted a kitchen designer/fitter who had been highly recommended on here, and he asked one of the builders he uses to come and have a look at the floor/window.

I must admit I was very very put off because the impression I got was that he had a "can't do" attitude instead of a "can do" (in a positive "can do" way, I mean, not saying he could do things which he couldn't!)

Given that this kitchen is going to mean my spending a very large chunk of my pension lump sum, I am determined that I'll get what I want unless it really is physically impossible to do or else costs a disproportionate amount of money!

He did suggest I had a slightly larger window than I have, which would come to a tile's depth above the work surface, so it wasn't a question of not wanting extra work (and anyway he hadn't given me a quote), however I can't see any point in spending money just to have a slightly larger window - except to put in double glazing, but I wouldn't replace the window just to do that).

[Huggers]

your builder may have meant that down to level of taps would risk rot to the wood if it was in contact with water on a regular basis. Although water might not run down back of a sink, there is a lot of damp stuff happening there, hence tiles.

I had an extra window put in where the side door used to be as there was already a lintel. I noticed in a lot of knocking through of these rooms and opening up at the back, the old door would just be bricked up, missing a trick of extra light.

They are slightly higher than the sink, but I am now going to tile the inset shelf, as even though it is higher it does get a bit wet from splashing around washing up.

[red devil]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The builder who told me I couldn't have

> floorboards over concrete also told me I couldn't

> have a window down to the level of the sink

> because "water would go behind the taps and sit on

> the work surface, that's why you have a

> splashback".

Surely a splashback accentuates this problem, water will always collect and sit on the worktop behind the taps.

Maybe what your builder meant was that water would splash onto the window itself???

Huggers is right about water and timber not being a good mix. How far back is the window from the taps?

My kitchen window has a nice deep reveal of around 300mm, so if it finished level with the worktop, I don't think it would be a problem with water splashing onto the window/glass. I think it's a nice design feature where a worktop seamlessly forms the internal window cill (this also works well for built-in desks). The problem you would have to overcome is that most off-the-shelf worktops come in standard widths, around 600mm. But if you found a worktop material that came in non-standard sizes, e.g. Corian, that would be one solution to get a single 'jointless' finish.

In this pic they have a window cill that sits slightly above the worktop. As long as a suitable material and waterproof joint is made between the worktop and cill, there shouldn't be a problem.

Also think would the taps work for you in a different location...in a corner or to the side maybe? They don't have to go central at the back of the sink, despite what Mr Average British Builder says...

http://www.trendskitchens.co.nz/tristone/gfx/residential.jpg

[Sue]

Thanks, I'll have another look!

[Annette Curtain]

*dons work hat*

Have you really thought about having floorboards in a kitchen. It's a heavy traffic area no matter how you convince yourself otherwise.

Add heat, grease, detergent and moisture into a wooden joint and it moves, swells and expands. No fillers or paint material can cope - no matter what the manufacture says. Ironically it's the wood that fails the filler, not the other way round. In the 20 odd years iv'e been in the business, i've not seen a floor made of wood, in a kitchen situation, survive the test of time. They all succumb in the end.

It does look beautiful though, I admit.

I'd encourage a client to re-look at the purpose of the room, then at the materials that suit that purpose, then design the room around that choice.

Windowsills and worktops. I'm not sure of your budget, but engineered stone composite work well, as does real stone. Corian in Std White is good value too. Wood surfaces can work, but stick with Iriko or Balau or even Teak , you can even have a teak sink made to order, if you fancy.

It can work to have a level worktops space up to a window frame. Firstly though, i'd have spec a 700 deep surface all-round, as it allows the services a free run behind the cabinets. It also gives an extra 100 mm from the back wall edge to the tap line (plus the sill) to allow overspill. The main reason to discourage it is the moisture creeps between the window frame and worktop.

However, a huge amount depends on your sink size & depth (and water pressure) which in turn decides water rebound, which in turn encourages pooling around a tap area , which determines your tap size (oh and do choose a ceramic valved one btw), and whether you choose underhung, or surface mounted sinks. In short, you can have what you want, but there are consequences to your choices, some fianancial some otherwise.

Also sealants, silicons and mastics fail all at some point, specially if you have a rigid surfaces like stone, composite or Corian butted up to an organic material like painted wood, Though, even when the surfaces are installed, a lot depends on how tight they are scribed and templated, then how they're eventually installed and sealed. Ultimately, this is why an up-stand is preferred by designers and stone worktop manufactures, as they are resin bonded to the surface, making a near perfect seal.

There's a lot of hidden work and costs in a really good job. I don't know what product you're looking at cabinet wise, but if I can offer anything I'd say that the worktop is one of your biggest deciders. Keep the cabinets simple. Double door cabs represent better value and feel easy to use. One bigger drawer stack ( no bigger than 1100, as the drawer box other than a wooden Pro-box, made in kent, will possibly distort as you close it) is better than 2 smaller ones. Avoid/beware of free-bee's, discounts and gimmicks, they ALL cost you somewhere. The kitchen design and selling business is as one sales manager coldly told me - All smoke and mirrors.

Good lighting is often over looked.

Kitchens that last are made of stainless steel and of an industrial ilk, but somewhat loveless. If you've got the budget, then a quality, simple painted kitchen, with in-frame butt hinge cabinets lasts the test of time, as it's revivable again and again. One we installed 17 years ago is still in great shape, after its 4th make over. That would never happen with a Euro style, lay on door, Blum hinge type of cabinet.

Oh and trying to save money by laying the floor up to the cabinet plinth is a waste of time, money and effort.

Other than all that, have fun !

*breathes*

[Salsaboy]

What Nettie said. Invest now for something that will last you the rest of your life.

[Sue]

Thanks for all the very helpful advice.

I know I know re floorboards in the kitchen but hey they may well outlast me and after that I don't really care :))

Worktops I'm looking at hardwood but something not too dark in colour. Can't remember the technical term but the kind that comes in whole lengths rather than lots of little rectangles stuck together.

Might consider a light coloured stone or corian, but I don't want anything too "cold" or clinical looking.

Yes it will be painted wooden units.

Budget - not entirely sure as I've only had one quote so far, and that didn't include everything which needs doing. Definitely not top end, however, but not rock bottom end flimsy stuff either.

Hope to actually get the ******* thing done this year, has been put off for four years now due to an unhealthy mixture of stress, fear of employing the wrong people again, and indecisiveness on my part :))

[Annette Curtain]

The term is "Full stave" for long lengths.

You might want to take a look at British Standards Cupboard Makers site.

[Sue]

Will do. Thanks Net.

ETA: Have done. Looks just the kind of style I'm after. Will pursue :)