Traffic fines around Dulwich village - has anyone appealed successfully

[Naiada]

We have just received 2 separate notices from the council because apparently we drove along Burbage/ Turney roads & the 2nd Dulwich village northbound towards Pickwick road. Has anyone else had similar notices and appealed successfully?

Seems likethe reatrictions are only at cerain hours of the day to coincide with school drop-off & pickups maybe?

[KidKruger]

there's other threads on this subject already which may help you, try searching for ticket/PCN/fine..

[slarti b]

My understanding is that the council were going to issue warning letters to begin with, did you receive one?

[DadOf4]

why would you think you have a grounds to appeal ?

Theres some pretty clear signs to say you shouldn't be driving on those roads at the time of restrictions

[slarti b]

Naiada,

I had a look at the signs at the DV roudnabout a couple of weeks ago. They are pretty clear during daylight but I am not sure how visible they would be at night and\or in poor weather. Certainly in December lots of people were ignoring or missing the signs. If, for example you are coming NOrth up Gallery Road and turning left into Burbage you are probably paying attention to the roundabout and may miss the signs that are quite high. Are there any signs on Gallery Road warning of left turn restrictions?

Alos, you may want to check whether thes signs are as originally planned by the council, ceratinly at Townley that is not the case

You may want to look at the Government traffic signs manual eg, recommended height section 5.4

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/771873/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-1.pdf

Edited to add: Had a look this afternon. Coming North up Gallery road there is a pretty clear timed no left turn sign in red circle, though it is last in a row of 3 signs so may be obscured. In poor visibility I think it would be easy to see that and end up going straight ahead without seeing the blue signs for DV which are quite high up.

Coming North up College Road there is no red warning sign (at least between picture Gallery and roundabout) so if turning into Burbage road there is very little time to see the blue, high placed signs and react. Especially as drivers are probably looking right at that stage to get on to roundabout.

In 10 mins this afternoon (around 3.15 so still light) I saw 19 cars and vans go through the signs.

[whiterose5]

I had same problem

The prohibition sign in front of roundabout towards Burbage Road is well to high and not visible in dark and bad whether.

[whiterose5]

For the first offense Council should have sent the warning letter to each Driver who committed the offense because the prohibition signs are erected just recently.

After you are aware of and if you do it again the fine is absolutely right decision.

[DulwichFox]

I am so glad I got rid of my Car in Feb.2019

So many restrictions on Car Owners. ( you don;t even need to actually Drive your car. }

Park it and you will still get done.

What worries me is Walking around the area.

If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat

If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat

If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Taxman! 'Cause I'm the taxman

Believe me.. it will come. with #Sadiqkhan 10% Council Tax rise.

Foxy.

[Naiada]

Update - we appealed online in early February and have just had a letter saying the fine for ?65 has gone up to ?190 for one offense - despite their website saying no additional penalty will be added whilst the appeal was being reviewed!! There is no-one answering the phones at Southwark council to discuss it with - it's all automated.

[claresy]

I got a PCN for driving through Dulwich Village at a prohibited time (the signs were not clear to me or I wouldn't have done it, and doubt others would either as who wants a fine?). I appealed it successfully as it was a first offence but told I would be fined if it reoccured.

[Sue]

Naiada Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Update - we appealed online in early February and

> have just had a letter saying the fine for ?65 has

> gone up to ?190 for one offense - despite their

> website saying no additional penalty will be added

> whilst the appeal was being reviewed!! There is

> no-one answering the phones at Southwark council

> to discuss it with - it's all automated.

Approach your councillor for help, or failing that try Helen Hayes.

[northernmonkey]

Regardless of whether the appeal should be upheld, increasing the fine whilst the appeal is ongoing doesn't seem acceptable. Would echo getting in touch with your local councilor. Likely to be an admin error but can imagine the process is frustrating.

[malumbu]

I've no idea about these particular fines, but from my experience having had various (and too many) FPNs over the years the reduced rate is for quick payment, ie a discount. As such by appealing you forego your opportunity to have a discount. It may be morally wrong but I expect legally OK. Just stating this as my experience rather than an opinion.

[rjsmall]

I think it varies. Where I have had cause to challenge a PCN in the past the 14 day period for early payment was paused. If your informal challenge is rejected by the council and you decide to take it to the independent appeals body then you have to pay the full amount if they don't find in your favour.

[sandyman]

Lack of clarity/transparency in the process is part of the problem.

I received a penalty in Lewisham where there was a similar scheme to Dulwich Village. I appealed immediately but didn't hear anything back so after two weeks I paid the fine to avoid it doubling on the basis that it would be refunded if my appeal was upheld. Instead I received a letter saying that as I had paid the fine the case was closed.

The scheme in Lewisham, by the way, has now been partly scrapped.

rjsmall Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it varies. Where I have had cause to

> challenge a PCN in the past the 14 day period for

> early payment was paused. If your informal

> challenge is rejected by the council and you

> decide to take it to the independent appeals body

> then you have to pay the full amount if they don't

> find in your favour.

[Concerned2021]

sandyman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lack of clarity/transparency in the process is

> part of the problem.

>

> I received a penalty in Lewisham where there was a

> similar scheme to Dulwich Village. I appealed

> immediately but didn't hear anything back so after

> two weeks I paid the fine to avoid it doubling on

> the basis that it would be refunded if my appeal

> was upheld. Instead I received a letter saying

> that as I had paid the fine the case was closed.

>

> The scheme in Lewisham, by the way, has now been

> partly scrapped.

>

>

> rjsmall Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think it varies. Where I have had cause to

> > challenge a PCN in the past the 14 day period

> for

> > early payment was paused. If your informal

> > challenge is rejected by the council and you

> > decide to take it to the independent appeals

> body

> > then you have to pay the full amount if they

> don't

> > find in your favour.

Lewisham are now trying to reinstate the original road closures but under the guise of safer school streets. However no actual school streets closed - just a way of getting quiet streets back for the nimbys that live their with their rows of cars...

[tedfudge]

Fines from cameras in a Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) run by Southwark Council in London have generated ?2.5 million in revenue just three months after the scheme?s launch, data from a Freedom of Information (FOI) request reveals.

A large amount of fixed penalty charges have been issued to road users by three?LTN cameras installed in Dulwich and one in Walworth.

In Dulwich Village, drivers have received?22,424 fines?between January 11 and February 28 2021

[AylwardS]

Although this will not change anything about penalties already issued you can register for the consultation on the review until 10 May 2021 and you will be advised when the consultation is issued. Register at

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/dulwich-review-registration-form/

You will still be able to respond to the consultation if you don?t register but this will make sure you are aware its been issued.

[EDRH1114090399]

A general bit of information - is that the council have to send you the PCN notification letter within 28 days of the alleged offence. Check the date the letter was printed and sent out at the top of the letter. The date at the bottom of the letter is the date of the alleged contravention and must not be more than 28 days before the date the letter was printed and sent out. If it is more than 28 days the PCN is invalidated.

If this has happened to you and you paid the fine, you should demand a refund from Southwark Council as they have technically broken the law and should not have sent the PCN.

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions England Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 (updated)(Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004). Page 26, paragraph 14 Penalty charge notices - service by post (5)a.

[Chick]

Thanks for this info. I have had one where the contravention is 19/01/21 the PCN is 19/04/21. They really are extracting the urine and I will now contest ti. Cheers.

EDRH1114090399 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A general bit of information - is that the council

> have to send you the PCN notification letter

> within 28 days of the alleged offence. Check the

> date the letter was printed and sent out at the

> top of the letter. The date at the bottom of the

> letter is the date of the alleged contravention

> and must not be more than 28 days before the date

> the letter was printed and sent out. If it is more

> than 28 days the PCN is invalidated.

> If this has happened to you and you paid the fine,

> you should demand a refund from Southwark Council

> as they have technically broken the law and should

> not have sent the PCN.

> The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions

> England Representations and Appeals Regulations

> 2007 (updated)(Part 6 of the Traffic Management

> Act 2004). Page 26, paragraph 14 Penalty charge

> notices - service by post (5)a.

[ianr]

I think you'll find that the regulations specific to _service_ of PCNs are the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, SI 2007/3483 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/contents/made. Regulation 10 does have some specific exceptions to the 28 day period, up to a maximum of six months, for service by post. (I'm assuming btw, following EDRH1114090399's reference, that these _are_ the sets of regulations relevant to what you're talking about.)

PS: There's similar provision of a six month limit, again in the case where there has been delay in the Secretary of State's supply of relevant particulars of the registered keeper in response to a timely request, in the Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2757/regulation/8/made .

ETA: And in the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 s.6 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/part/2/enacted.

ETA 24/5 I'm confident that it's the last mentioned of these that's the relevant set of regulations, dealing with moving traffic infractions rather than those of parking or misuse of bus lanes.

[Chick]

I have just appealed but don't expect success.

[boomshake22]

i appealled to the fine entering dulwich village and was successful , i have attached my letter please edit as required

you can simply submit this online on the southwark parking website, that what i did, add your own pics

good luck with this,,, it is an absolute disgrace of a cashcow charge

[Chick]

Well done. It's a disgrace that they can fleece us like this.

boomshake22 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i appealled to the fine entering dulwich village

> and was successful , i have attached my letter

> please edit as required

> you can simply submit this online on the southwark

> parking website, that what i did, add your own

> pics

>

> good luck with this,,, it is an absolute disgrace

> of a cashcow charge

[Pocahontas1980]

boomshake22 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i appealled to the fine entering dulwich village

> and was successful , i have attached my letter

> please edit as required

> you can simply submit this online on the southwark

> parking website, that what i did, add your own

> pics

>

> good luck with this,,, it is an absolute disgrace

> of a cashcow charge

Well done! I wish I had seen this before I paid the fine a couple of weeks ago. You made some very good points in your appeal.