Jump to content

Traffic fines around Dulwich village - has anyone appealed successfully


Recommended Posts

Giacomelli Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've had so many fines now in Dulwich (I no longer

> live in ED), I've decided to not go there any more

> for certain shops/cafes - it's too much of a risk.

> I'm often looking out for people crossing the

> road, or other perils in the road and therefore

> haven't noticed the new signs. Where on Southwark

> website can I find a map of the restrictions?


https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/improving-our-streets/live-projects/our-healthy-streets/our-healthy-streets-dulwich

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Bookshake


Your attachement opens up as symbols on my machine. Could you attach the copy?

I've just been fined for driving through there on Bank Holiday Monday, which surely is pushing it even for them!


Thanks

A small landscaping business has just been hit with a flurry of fines - but they have taken 2 months to arrive which means they have been accruing loads in the interim. Please no one suggest they use a bicycle to transport heavy materials?. Looking at appealing as this feels just wrong for there to he such a delay in sending out
I also appealed in May but I've heard nothing yet. Having done some research the signage doesn't comply with the 2016 Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions. There's just not enough warning, nor adequate time to process the restriction while safely trying to get round the roundabout. Will keep you posted...

tiddles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A small landscaping business has just been hit

> with a flurry of fines - but they have taken 2

> months to arrive which means they have been

> accruing loads in the interim. Please no one

> suggest they use a bicycle to transport heavy

> materials?. Looking at appealing as this feels

> just wrong for there to he such a delay in sending

> out


From what's written above in this thread, the council are legally obliged to issue a PCN within 28 days of the supposed offence. Otherwise it's invalid. I haven't researched this myself but I'm sure it could be easily checked.

I take it you're referring to EDRH1114090399's assertion above, at https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2180997,2209151#msg-2209151, which s/he posted in several threads. I posted a rejoinder to it, https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2180997,2203886#msg-2203886 after its first appearance, as has AylwardS, above.

tiddles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks Alan medic x


Hi tiddles. Hope you read the post following mine. There are exceptions to the 28 day rule apparently, which the Council could fall back on. So say a couple of well informed posters above.

I've been caught out by this and paid it, begrudgingly. I rarely drive around there and wasn't aware of the restrictions. I think if Southwark genuinely wanted people not to get fined they'd put a clear warning on the entrance to the roundabout rather than one you might see only when you're committed (or don't see at all because you're concentrating on the road.

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well I appealed. Anyone say how long it takes to

> get a verdict?



I appealed in early May and have just received a response (appeal rejected sadly), so the backlog seems to currently be around 6 - 7 weeks.


They do seem to put a decent effort into the response though and generally respond to each point raised, so kudos to the fines team at Southwark. Nice to see the council working a bit for their revenue.

boomshake22 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks, it's worth doing the research, please feel

> free to pass the letter on, yes the pcn says to

> reply in writing on the pcn but the website states

> you can submit online, much easier, again

> misleading info on the pcn.

>

> Whatever convinced them to cancel my pcn,is

> detailed in the letter, so it's an error on their

> part that they are obviously not admitting, and as

> far as I can tell not correcting.


The Council do not have to give any reason for cancelling a PCN - cancellation from their side is 'discretionary'.


It is therefore probably not worth going back to them after you have paid a fine and saying 'yes but someone else said ...'


The only successful approach is to make a polite representation - as legally sound as possible - at the right time on your own behalf.


The reason they make such a fortune is because most people are not experience, dogged, or informed enough to make representations in exactly the right way to get the PCN cancelled. This is all part of the approach set out by those in charge of generating income for the Council, combined with their legal team which will know very clearly what they can and cant get away with at the highest level. ie if someone were to take the legal process to the very end. That is where a judge would rule in favour of Boom - whose expert letter would have won the case, so it is a simple decision for Southwark to cancel such a powerful articulate representation with that kind of legal weight.


Fairness and reasonableness has got nothing to do with it - look over at the thread of the Dulwich Forum on this and lots of people careworkers, parents not familiar with the area trying to drive their kids to the Herne Hill velodrome... all have been caught by the system. The press ought to be involved and challenge the Council to justify their rule making, and NAME who is responsible for conceiving and running this revenue generating scheme.


Boom's letter has the imprimature of a barrister level specialised traffic legal expert - expertise like this is available for free on ( google Pepipoo Fightback forum) where the are a bunch of very very experience traffic solicitors peer reviewing and comparing each other's advice.

  • 4 weeks later...

boomshake22 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i appealled to the fine entering dulwich village

> and was successful , i have attached my letter

> please edit as required

> you can simply submit this online on the southwark

> parking website, that what i did, add your own

> pics

>

> good luck with this,,, it is an absolute disgrace

> of a cashcow charge



Hi @boomshake22 - thanks to your excellent letter, we?ve just had 7(!) PCNs overturned from May with the exact same circumstances.

We are absolutely thrilled.


We would love to say thank you as your letter really helped us build a decent case. Will send you a private message!

Another message of thanks to Boomshake, as the PCN I received has been withdrawn, following my submission to LBS using Boomshake's letter as a basis.


We are now in the postion where Alleyns School is not operating until 7th September, however Townley Rd cannot be used during the restricted hours.


I rarely use my car locally, prefering the push bike, however I have now stuck a post-it to the dashboard to remind me to use a different route, along E Dulwich Grove to drive west. I do enjoy a bit of long distance cycling, and 2 weeks ago cycled ED to St Austell in Cornwall. Its around 260miles and took about 22hours, overnight. Unfortunately once you get to Exeter, Dartmoor has to be climbed, and frankly this is an extreme method of avoiding a PCN!

>

>

> parents not familiar with the area trying to drive

> their kids to the Herne Hill velodrome...


How very ironic. Used to cycle mine there.


And talking about cycling 22 hours overnight and 260 miles Adrian - sounds a bit masochistic! I did 300 km overnight in Sweden once, never again.....

doogsey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Alan Medic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well I appealed. Anyone say how long it takes

> to

> > get a verdict?

>

>

> I appealed in early May and have just received a

> response (appeal rejected sadly), so the backlog

> seems to currently be around 6 - 7 weeks.

>

> They do seem to put a decent effort into the

> response though and generally respond to each

> point raised, so kudos to the fines team at

> Southwark. Nice to see the council working a bit

> for their revenue.


I had my appeal rejected though I'm thinking of disputing it. The email stating this was actually from a company called Apcoa Parking, though the use a Southward Parking email address. So I think it's fair to assume the Council is not dealing with these but have outsourced it. The Apcoa Group is made up of very wealthy companies (not surprisingly). The Ultimate Holding Company isn't even in the UK.


This sign was used in their email stating that it's on College Road, which is the direction we approached Dulwich Village from. Has anyone any idea how long the sign has been there since I've no recollection of seeing it in early June?


file.php?5,file=397726

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> I had my appeal rejected though I'm thinking of

> disputing it. The email stating this was actually

> from a company called Apcoa Parking, though the

> use a Southward Parking email address. So I think

> it's fair to assume the Council is not dealing

> with these but have outsourced it. The Apcoa Group

> is made up of very wealthy companies (not

> surprisingly). The Ultimate Holding Company isn't

> even in the UK.


I think pretty much all councils outsource parking and other traffic enforcement these days.


> This sign was used in their email stating that

> it's on College Road, which is the direction we

> approached Dulwich Village from. Has anyone any

> idea how long the sign has been there since I've

> no recollection of seeing it in early June?

>

> https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?

> 5,file=397726


I?m pretty certain it has been there since the restrictions were imposed or very shortly afterwards. It was definitely there in June. I run past there very regularly and it was one of the reasons I was surprised people were claiming the signage was inadequate.

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Alan, did you get the ticket for going along

> Dulwich Village or Burbage. If it was the latter

> you could claim the sign on Burbage is obscured

> because of its position so forward on the

> junction.


Dulwich Village, Rockets.

The government before last (or before that) was supposed to deal with excessive enforcement charges, aimed at the private clampers. Not sure if they delivered in that manifesto commitment. They were also keen on reducing town centre parking charges, scuppering a wonderful park and ride scheme in Coventry where electric buses ferried people into the high street. Not very joined up thinking from national government.

I have read Boomshakes excellent letter and since talked to a few others who have had success. All used different grounds for appeal and this suggests that there are distinct benefits in sharing information on successful appeals.


I am willing to collate all the relevant information from those who have succeeded. It can then be compiled into a set of guidelines that can be made available on-line.


So, If you have has success, please send me a PM with the details. Please remove any personal information or car reg details.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Honestly, the squirrels are not a problem now.  They only eat what has dropped.  The feeders I have are squirrel proof anyway from pre-cage times.  I have never seen rats in the garden, and even when I didn't have the cage.  I most certainly would have noticed them.  I do have a little family of mice which I have zero problem about.  If they stay outside, that's fine with me.  Plus, local cats keep that population down.  There are rats everywhere in London, there is plenty of food rubbish out in the street to keep them happy.  So, I guess you could fit extra bars to the cage if you wanted to, but then you run the risk of the birds not getting in.  They like to be able to fly in and out easily, which they do.   
    • Ahh, the old "it's only three days" chestnut.  I do hope you realise the big metal walls, stages, tents, toilets, lighting, sound equipment, refreshments, concessions etc don't just magically appear & disappear overnight? You know it all has to be transported in & erected, constructed? And that when stuff is constructed, like on a construction site, it's quite noisy & distracting? Banging, crashing, shouting, heavy plant moving around - beep beep beep reversing signals, engines revving - pneumatic tools? For 8 to 10 hours a day, every day? And that it tends to go on for two or three weeks before an event, and a week after when they take it all down again? I'm sure my boys' GCSE prep won't be affected by any of that, especially if we close the windows (before someone suggests that as a resolution). I'm sure it won't affect anyone at the Harris schools either, actually taking their exams with that background noise.
    • Thanks for the good discussion, this should be re-titled as a general thread about feeding the birds. @Penguin not really sure why you posted, most are aware that virtually all land in this country is managed, and has been for 100s of years, but there are many organisations, local and national government, that manage large areas of land that create appropriate habitats for British nature, including rewilding and reintroductions.  We can all do our bit even if this is not cutting your lawn, and certainly by not concreting over it.  (or plastic grass, urgh).   I have simply been stating that garden birds are semi domesticated, as perhaps the deer herds in Richmond Park, New Forest ponies, and even some foxes where we feed them.  Whoever it was who tried to get a cheap jibe in about Southwark and the Gala festival.  Why?  There is a whole thread on Gala for you to moan on.  Lots going on in Southwark https://www.southwark.gov.uk/culture-and-sport/parks-and-open-spaces/ecology-and-wildlife I've talked about green sqwaky things before, if it was legal I'd happily use an air riffle, and I don't eat meat.  And grey squirrels too where I am encourage to dispatch them. Once a small group of starlings also got into the garden I constructed my own cage using starling proof netting, it worked for a year although I had to make a gap for the great spotted woodpecker to get in.  The squirrels got at it in the summer but sqwaky things still haven't come back, starlings recently returned.  I have a large batch of rubbish suet pellets so will let them eat them before reordering and replacing the netting. Didn't find an appropriately sized cage, the gaps in the mesh have to be large enough for finches etc, and the commercial ones were £££ The issue with bird feeders isn't just dirty ones, and I try to keep mine clean, but that sick birds congregate in close proximity with healthy birds.  The cataclysmic obliteration of the greenfinch population was mainly due to dirty feeders and birds feeding close to each other.  
    • Another recommendation for Niko - fitted me in the next day, simple fix rather than trying to upsell and a nice guy as well. Will use again
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...