Genuine question for people who refuse to wear masks.

[diable rouge]

Apparently we'll be the only county in the world pressing ahead with such a strategy that is effectively Vaccines v Covid. No halfway house, no minimising risks, just hope that the vaccine wall holds back Covid...

[Nigello]

Denmark has ditched mask requirements even though its vaccine programme isn?t as good as in the UK. Singapore has decided to state publicly that it won?t do a daily tally of cases and will treat it like flu. Daily Mail quoting Singapore government

Singapore may STOP counting Covid-19 cases

[KidKruger]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't understand why there's this ideological

> obsession with relaxing all restrictions on the

> 19th while there's still a sizeable percentage of

> the population that is unvaccinated and the Delta

> variant is clearly on the rise.

> The public were overwhelmingly behind the

> lockdowns despite what Tory backbenchers would

> have you believe, and I'm sure an equally large

> majority would support retaining some restrictions

> such as mandatory wearing of masks on public

> transport, in shops etc...

It's a purely populist decision, so no room for doing what's safest for the people.

[Spartacus]

Populist for who ?

Not the NHS that's for sure or those who die if they catch it!

[KidKruger]

I mean give the people ?freedom? = stay popular

Obvs the NHS are shitting themselves, many NHS workers won?t have the energy for a 3rd wave - or the stress of worrying when it?s coming.

[TheCat]

Im really hoping that the pro-masker versus anti-masker debate becomes the dividing lines of the next few years...replacing leavers versus remainers.....which is getting rather dull......

let me know what the majority of you want to support and i'll support the opposite, prely to keep it interesting.....:)

[diable rouge]

Will do, Mary...

[TheCat]

garden grows well thanks;)

[Spartacus]

The supporting act for the briefing (Witty and Valance) made it obvious that they didn't agree with removing the need for masks...

[Seabag]

The bottom line is like Trump, Johnson is going for the economy and is prepared to let people die for it.

Plus he?s bored of the whole situation. He wants some new ?news? to crow about.

?Oooooooo let?s build a boat? or a bridge, or an airport. You know, his usual ?one out of the bag? type banana distraction thing.

Chimp Paradox anybody?

[malumbu]

Controls have to be relaxed sooner or later, or do you want to move back a few months to January and have another lockdown? For once I have to agree with the PM, if not now, when? Whilst he is an easy target, it doesn't really help the argument having cheap pot shots at him. And I certainly am not his greatest supporter.

If you want to have go at anyone it is the anti-vaxxers, one stage up from those refusing to wear masks.

[NewWave]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I don't understand why there's this ideological

> > obsession with relaxing all restrictions on the

> > 19th while there's still a sizeable percentage

> of

> > the population that is unvaccinated and the

> Delta

> > variant is clearly on the rise.

> > The public were overwhelmingly behind the

> > lockdowns despite what Tory backbenchers would

> > have you believe, and I'm sure an equally large

> > majority would support retaining some

> restrictions

> > such as mandatory wearing of masks on public

> > transport, in shops etc...

>

> It's a purely populist decision, so no room for

> doing what's safest for the people.

I agree-Because I travel on the tube daily and work in a shop I will continue to wear my mask.

I suspect I will be amongst the few in my workplace and on the tube doing that but I do want to protect my loved ones

as even if I'm double Vaxxed I could still get it or pass it to someone else.

I'm recently hearing of many people where I work having to isolate or contracting covid.

It seems to be spreading faster than I remember the virus spreading before-based on my personal evidence I consider the total easing of restrictions foolhardy at this moment in time to say the least.

I fear that the next wave will hit during the school holidays but for economic reasons everything will stay open and people will die.

I dont trust Boris's judgement in this.

He isn't a scientist he'll be ok-he doesn't have to use public transport every day or deal with members of the public.

He lives in a privileged bubble-and doesn't give a damn about the man in the street.

[TheCat]

It's a purely populist decision, so no room for doing what's safest for the people. He?s bored of the whole situation. He wants some new ?news? to crow about. He lives in a privileged bubble-and doesn't give a damn about the man in the street....

oh...hang on...'he' is Prof Chris Wittty.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave

[JohnL]

Right Said Fred tweeted that Mask Wearers are superfluous.

So there - you've been told in no uncertain terms.

[TheCat]

I believe that being too sexy for your mask is indeed one of the permitted exemptions

[diable rouge]

Too sexy for contextual analysis...

[Sephiroth]

deeply dippy

[Spartacus]

Javid today said he expected up-to 100 thousand cases a day as a result of removing restrictions

TfL are reviewing what they can do post the 17th to make mask wearing a requirement on public transport but if they don't then passenger numbers will decline again as some people won't feel safe or feel isolated by non mask wearers. If that happens more people will drive and roads will get more congested

My comment is standby for chaos and if only 10% of the predicted infections get long covid then just wait to see how the NHS copes with that in the future.

The 17th is a ticking time bomb that someone has to disarm whilst the delta and delta plus variants are on the rise.

[JohnL]

Government Solution: Don't publish case data.

I fully expect the above.

[BrandNewGuy]

As I mentioned before, stick with the ONS for the most reliable UK data. And for what it's worth, their figures suggest that the Delta variant is significantly milder than previous variants.

This article strikes me as a fair assessment of the current arguments concerning the easing of restrictions:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942

"... What is more, those ending up in hospital seem to be less sick, and need less intensive treatment.

The risk of death, as a result, has reduced even further. In January about one in 60 cases resulted in someone dying. Today it's fewer than one in 1,000."

[JohnL]

My nature is to wait and see what happens to the first people to go out - as once I start going out again it'll be irreversible as Boris says - those pints won't drink themselves :)

[Seabag]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Too sexy for contextual analysis...

>

> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5jjL4UWEAQIzc9?format

> =jpg&name=small

For my health tips, I often refer to Right Says Fred, nearly always tbf.

Then after I listen to the guy in the chip shop in Surrey Quays

?Enough?flow test..quarantine..people is bored of this life?

[Spartacus]

There's a bloke in the Surrey Quays chip shop who swears he's Elvis ...

[TheCat]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As I mentioned before, stick with the ONS for the

> most reliable UK data. And for what it's worth,

> their figures suggest that the Delta variant is

> significantly milder than previous variants.

> This article strikes me as a fair assessment of

> the current arguments concerning the easing of

> restrictions:

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942

> "... What is more, those ending up in hospital

> seem to be less sick, and need less intensive

> treatment.

> The risk of death, as a result, has reduced even

> further. In January about one in 60 cases resulted

> in someone dying. Today it's fewer than one in

> 1,000."

Thanks for the link.

There seem to be rather a lot of people stirring themselves up into a right state about the unwinding of restrictions. Not least of all on this thread. There's a lot of distrust for Boris here, but lets remember that this move is backed by people like Chris Witty, and a bunch of other experts (see the link BNG posted), so it hasnt just been a date dreamt-up by a bunch of populists/charlatans/liars/insert you preferred abuse here.....

There's got to be an acceptable level of risk somewhere, doesn't there? Where do we draw the line? Im afraid that even once 100% of the population is fully vaccinated, some people will still die of Covid......no vaccine is 100% effective. But the overall number of deaths at that point will be a fraction of what it would be for an unvaccinated population.

Maybe 19th June isnt the right time, I dont know....im not sitting analysing all the numbers....but it has to be sometime...and at that point people will still die of the disease...and we may all say it was 'avoidable' if we were all cooped up at home in plastic bubbles watching netflix....

[Sephiroth]

Talking about death numbers is one thing - but we also have to account for numbers of people suffering from Long Covid, and what impact that will have on the economy

If it was just a simple case of X vaccinated times Y cases = Z deaths then it would be relatively easy to come to some sort of date to open up

But people are indeed stirring themselves into a right state - and given this govt handling of everything since March last year then the only answer is "fair enough"

It's not just the reopening - it's the messaging, it's the way people are going to not behave responsibly (and they won't be the ones who suffer because of it)

It's the lack of learning from this country's experience as well as other countries - eg why are Israel quickly reverting to masks despite their vaccination record?

The problem is not getting to next year and living with x number of deaths a day - it's the % chance we will have to enter another shitty 4 month proper lockdown AGAIN, with massive increase in deaths to boot because we have created a lab for virus variants

Because we could have carried on much as we have been for last couple of months for a few more months before making a decision like this

As things are, this feels like last summer where we had govt telling us to get back to work, eat out, and snake oil men like Toby Young saying this was all over

Yes vaccinations have gone well but to no apparent benefit - we are still on most countries shitlist and this is unlikely to help - but announcing Freedom Day gives a patina of "success" to the vaccination effort it doesn't (yet) merit