I'm really bored, can someone start a heated debate please

[Bouncy]

Ah, I see, Saffron - sorry, somewhat misunderstood your original point! Yes, agree with you that it would be really unpleasant to go along and actively buy in to the whole premise of the thing to the couple's face then rubish it behind their back. Sounds like you have some interesting stories to tell there; I actually haven't really come across people doing that - just situations where there's a mutual understanding that we all have different beliefs / neutralities, but are putting them aside for the event and concentrating on the people at its centre...

[LondonMix]

I agree with Bouncy and also get where WM is coming from. Neither my husband nor I are religious at all but we celebrate Christmas, etc. Where is the line drawn between a cultural norm and being a religious hypocrite? Certain rituals are part of the cultural heritage of being raised in historically Judeo-Christian society.

The whole hypocrite thing is a tough one. At some point, no matter how much you love and respect your friends, you are going to disagree with some choice they've made. I think its too high a standard to think you can only be friends with people who you agree on absolutely every contentious issue. I don't think it makes you a hypocrite for still actively supporting them and participating in their lives. With that said, I wouldn't ever be cruel about it. I might make light-hearted fun with my husband (does that even count?) but I wouldn't ridicule their choices to mutual friends. So much of that sort of thing is tone though isn't it, especially amongst a close knit group of friends.

[Chillaxed]

Well put Bouncy.

I am 100% OK with attending a church celebration if requested by friends or family. Or my wife. None of them for a second thought I was buying in to the religous aspects of it, and none gave a monkey's. I'm tempted to include the priest/reverend/pastor in 'them'.

I tend to either let my mind wander or try and find a more generic, agnostic meaning in the words spoken. Or I think of Satan and Saddam a la South Park.

[WorkingMummy]

But I totally get Saffron's point, which is basically about integrity, no?

Lots of people don't get it. My husband - who obviously i deeply respect - doesn't really get it. Before we got married he begged me to just tell a porky if the Swiss minister asked about my faith. (To save a lot of hassle and talking he said.) He couldn't see the big deal for me. Probably because he's pretty much only culturally Christian himself, rather than a fundamental believer. But it was very important to me and I'm glad I was honest because, although prepared to go along with pretty much anything required with my fingers crossed behind my back, thanks to a very cool vicar, I got a wedding service I could fully own.

[Smiler]

If invited to a religious wedding or christening it is v difficult to get out of it! I do admit to making faces sometimes or even moaning ( to fellow athiests totally unconnected with the couple), but have genuine goodwill too.

Churches are quite happy to take the cash for these one-off events, they know the score.

I object to the fact that to have a chance of places for the children at the most popular local state school (not ED) one of us would have to attend church for years on end, have the children christened, ideally attend church too etc. Churches beefing up attendance with the carrot of school entry. Those families would surely not attend that or indeed ANY church were it not for the school admission. I don't blame them, don't think will do it myself, not because it'd be hypocritical (have no problem with that), but because it'd require a massive time investment and restraint and possible lies to the children. Urgh.

[Smiler]

Bishop, people like that, of the "they will just have to fit in", "everything will be lovely, la la la" school of thought often don't get a shock, they get the easygoing/sleepy babies, grrr!

[WorkingMummy]

With you on faith schools, Smiler.

They should not be allowed to discriminate between children on the basis of their patents' religion.