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Watched lots of news coverage today, even ITV, a rarity, to get their take on it. Trying to read round a little on why it all happened so quickly and one theory is that the Taliban negotiated with the army for their safe passage if they laid down their arms. It would be interesting to get others' perspectives on what comes over as a dreadful situation and wasted Western investment in terms of both money and lives (not ignoring the much great loss of Afghans). The last 20 years have not led to popular support of a democratic regime.


Two useful articles that appear to go beyond our mainstream TV coverage


Poltico https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/16/afghanistan-history-taliban-collapse-504977


NT Times https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/world/asia/afghanistan-rapid-military-collapse.html

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https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/291741-afghanistan/
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It's a big ugly, no easy-wins situation, with horrific consequences currently unfolding


I don't think blaming Biden for implementing the deal Trump did twith he Taliban is quite the gotcha people who make the comment think it is. I'm not absolving Biden of anything - but let's not pretend Trump would somehow be doing better

yep - but then we go back to the fundamentals of this whole venture. Should we have gone in the first place? How long do we commit to staying? After 20 years do you just say "well, forever if necessary?".


If our problem is the way a country treats it's women are we going to tackle other big countries? Of course not


What the UK can do now (now that it was ignored in this) the one thing it is sovereign over, is decide how it treats refugees from Afghanistan - and that's not looking good is it?

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sleepy Joe seems to have slept through much of

> this. Our lot were half awake on the beach.


Or he did know and allowed it to happen (an election is 3.5 years away - he may have decided to get it over with).


CNN said he wanted out after a conversation with (frustratingly I missed the who here)

We seem to have known anyway and this whole article about withdrawal was written in April.


"At meetings of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in Brussels on March 23 and 24, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken sought to put allies on notice that they should start thinking about how to conduct withdrawals of their own troops in Afghanistan, a combat disengagement that the Pentagon describes as a ?military retrograde operation.? "


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/us/politics/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal.html

Early days to tell if Afghanistan wont be a base for international terrorists.

Clearly Islamic / Sharia law is alien to western values.

Equally taking the 2001 theocracy through to resilient democracy would take circa 100 years if history is anything to go by.

US has lost over 6,000 people killed in Afghanistan. Nearly half military, remainder contractors mostly for security. Over 20,000 seriously injured. And spent over a trillion USD.

What is amazing is that the US / NATO didn't leave well over a decade ago.


What may be hopeful is Taliban leadership living in rich Middle East states for most of the last 20 years. They've enjoyed more modern life styles - TV, mobiles, internet, security and freedoms. Id be amazed if they return Afghanistan back to the 2001 they were deposed from. Or that the 38 million citizens of Afghanistan having experienced the huge economic and social uplift of the last 20 years wish to return to 2001.

Equally 22% of Afghan GDP is currently from foreign aid almost exclusively the west.

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