rather brilliant primary schools

[bawdy-nan]

just a small cheer for uk state primary schools who, despite the doom mongering and mr gove's determination to have them all privatised, today were shown to be on a par mathswise with schools I. Hong Kong etc (which are usually cited as top notch)

[Chief Jeff]

Yeah, indeed. I really like what I've seen of the way maths is taught in primaries these days. The question is, why are the cleverest kids not continuing to do well at secondary school (compared to kids elsewhere in the world)? If this report is accurate, of course... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21535055 GCSE maths too easy?

[Fuschia]

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6320366&s_cid=tesmagazinehome

[Curmudgeon]

Anecdotally I was not overly impressed with the maths provision at my son's primary school and whilst he tested well I have seen his maths improve 2 levels within a term and a half in year 7 at secondary school. This alongside an offering of 2 London university based programmes to extend maths skills and encourage secondary school students to consider maths in higher education.

[????]

So, at secondary level, Comprehensive education does work. The brightest are held back but the average rises a little bit. Socialism, doncha luv it...

[LondonMix]

You'd consider the brightest being 'held back' a good result?

[Fuschia]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/22/league-tables-pupils-behind-maths

[LondonMix]

Thanks Fuschia, that terrible. I suppose the value add scores create a somewhat distorted incentive too as its easier to progress students who are behind than those who are advanced?

[Fuschia]

It's easier to progress those who are ahead than those who are behind.

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/02/making-expected-progress-a-deeply-flawed-measure/

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/02/new-gcse-measures-a-cautious-welcome/

[bawdy-nan]

I don't think the story is that the brightest are being held back

actually. The rhetoric around the radical school reform we're in the midst of is predicated on the idea that British schools are failing. This "fact" is often cited by those who say that, compared to international standards, British schools are doing badly. What's clear from this - and is worth shouting about- is that British state primary schools (on which these stats are based rather than anything resulting from gove's dismantling and rebooting and restating of the curriculum and attacks on "failing" teachers) is that British primary schools are doing very, very well on international measures.

Certainly the dip at secondary level is troubling but it's not the only part of the story and indeed the current governmental focus on "5 good gcses" has been cited as a reason for the tailing off of the brightest children- ie if you can get 5 at c why bother trying for more. Lots of clever children intbe state sector encouraged to take gcses early (ie without having studied to their full potential).

So, no, it's not ideal but the big story has been largely ignored- ie bloody big hurrah due to the state primary sector.

[LondonMix]

Interesting Fuschia. So do you think if the value add score was emphasized more it might balance out the teaching priorities? The GCSE measurement would encourage schools to push average students and the value add measurement would encourage schools to push able students?

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's easier to progress those who are ahead than

> those who are behind.

>

> http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/02/maki

> ng-expected-progress-a-deeply-flawed-measure/

>

>

> http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/02/new-

> gcse-measures-a-cautious-welcome/

[????]

Well yes, well done to the Primary schools, but given that the end product of compulsary education is the output from Secondary then the state system isn't performing very well, unlike it was say when we had horrible elitist but actually very good Grammar schools. And in those counties that kept the Grammar Schools, the so called 'dumping school', Secondary Moderns, still out perform comprehensives as a whole. That's what attempting social engineering on equality does, bugger up our state education, especially damaging for inner city working class kids, ironically leading to decreased social mobility. All those private school educated labour education secretaries of the 60s (Williams et al) doncha just love em.

London Mix, I'll let you off as you're not english, but my post was plainly ironic!

[LondonMix]

Sorry, I mentioned in a previous post my irony / sense of humour has been completely deactivated by the mind numbing tedium of home renovations of late :/

Agree with your post though :)

[Fuschia]

B-n, wish there was a 'like' button here.

[Fuschia]

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/01/schools-minister-makes-a-speech-somewhere-what-did-she-say-to-the-mystery-audience

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/faqs/

'Scare stories about UK pupils plummeting down league tables are exaggerated and not statistically robust.

Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) 2009

?We used to be fourth in the world for our science education, now we are 16th. We used to be seventh in the world for the quality of our children?s literacy. Now we are 25th. We used to be eighth in the world for the quality of our maths, now we are 28th,? said Michael Gove to the Conservative Conference in 2011. But these figures can only be upheld by using the results of the PISA tests for the UK in 2000. PISA tests are taken by a sample of 14 year-olds in countries around the world every three years. These tests are administered by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). The first PISA tests took place in 2000 and the UK appeared to do well. However, OECD has since found that the PISA statistics for the UK in 2000 were flawed and warned that they should not be used for comparison.

The only figures which can be used to show UK performance are those for the years 2006 and 2009. These show a relative fall in ranking from 17th to 25th in reading, 23rd to 28th for maths, and 14th to 17th in 2009 for science. But more countries took part in the 2009 tests ? 65 compared with 58 in 2006. However, if we look at the actual figures, there is little statistical difference between the 2006 and 2009 scores.

Reading 2006: 495 2009: 494

Maths 2006: 495 2009: 492

Science 2006: 515 2009: 514

In the 2009 PISA tests, UK pupils were at the OECD average for reading and maths, and above the OECD average for Science

In October 2012, the UK Statistics Authority expressed concern about the way the Department of Education had used PISA statistics. It concluded, ?it may be difficult to treat an apparent decline in secondary school pupils? performance as ?a statistically robust result??.'

[Fuschia]

This report puts quite a different slant on it

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20664752

'In maths, the study says England has been one of the most improved between 1995 and 2011. England remains in the global top 10 for maths - in 9th for primary and 10th for secondary.'

The more recent news reports at the start of this thread are comparing different tests and also 'league table' rankings are not a good measure of progress

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21296635

[Fuschia]

More analysis

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/02/english-kids-significantly-lag-east-asians-in-maths/

'English pupils significantly lag their East Asian counterparts in maths from infancy, the likely causes being related to social and educational inequality, too much setting and streaming in primary schools, too much selection and fragmentation in the school system generally and in secondary schools too much emphasis on the C grade floor target at the expense of quality, differentiated teaching of all pupils including the most able.

The DfE however thinks the key messages are that we need tougher discipline, harder exams and more setting and streaming. The media (quality and tabloid), as usual, completely fails to understand or address the issues at all.'

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2013/02/why-we-lag-behind-east-asia-in-maths/