Genuine question

[TheCat]

The death of Sarah Everard prompted a wave of attention on the safety of women. The death of Sabina Nessa has rightfully gained plenty of attention, and reminded us of the dangers that women face.

But....

On the day the Nessa death was reported I was watching BBC London news, where it lead the bulletin, with a number of different reports covering various aspects. Then 15 mins later, there was a passing mention (in a list of 'quick' news items) of two (totally separate from each other) young men who were murdered in London on the same day

The contrast of the coverage was stark. Why no 'fanfare' for these deaths?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be made a big deal of, but why is that the media trumpets stats like '180 women were killed by men in the past 12 months' (180 too many of course) but men are killed at roughly double the rate....

So the question is, when men die at roughly double the rate of women, does male on female crime receive a disproportionate level of coverage in that context? Am I missing something?

[KidKruger]

?All lives matter?

[Sephiroth]

? In a book I read recently on boosting creativity, a male creative says he goes for long late night solo walks at 10pm around local parks and canals to stir up ideas. IMAGINE?

Men have no idea how lucky they are compared to women when it comes to casual safety

[Sephiroth]

Regardless of who is dying, men are doing the killing

We are the problem here

The men who die? Usually in dispute with other men

The women who die? Random unprovoked attacks

Edited to add that after several people picked me up on how wrong my last line was here, I'm not standing by this last line - see responses further down

[KidKruger]

? Men have no idea how lucky they are compared to women when it comes to casual safety?

My point exactly.

TheCat - why should anyone be concerned with the abduction, assault, rape, murder, subsequent dismemberment, then hiding of the chopped-up body of a woman who was simply walking home from a social evening with her friends.

I think you?re an intentionally provocative bastard.

It?s not clever.

[Nigello]

Sephiroth - how do you know for a fact this was a random attack? It?s a possibility mooted by the police but it?s not yet confirmed. (The heinousness of the crime and the grief of those left behind is still intact whichever man - stranger or otherwise - is responsible.)

[Sephiroth]

By random I?m going to say ?she wasn?t expecting this attack. She wasn?t in some turf war with some rival. She hadn?t dissed him in front of his mates in the pub.? Im not claiming for a FACT. just the general profile of these killings and general attacks on women

It was a bloke unhappy with a woman. A lot of it around. Men going ?but men get attacked too? have zero clue

[TheCat]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ? Men have no idea how lucky they are compared to

> women when it comes to casual safety?

>

> My point exactly.

>

> TheCat - why should anyone be concerned with the

> abduction, assault, rape, murder, subsequent

> dismemberment, then hiding of the chopped-up body

> of a woman who was simply walking home from a

> social evening with her friends.

> I think you?re an intentionally provocative

> bastard.

> It?s not clever.

Sigh...what a ridiculous, hyperbolic and petty. response.

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------ Men going ?but men get attacked too? have

> zero clue

Does expressing concern for men's deaths in anyway lessen concern for women's deaths or violence against them?'Concern'is not mutually exclusive.

[Sephiroth]

Cat - I think your thread, even the title of it, and your whole tone is petty

KK is absolutely spot on here - you claim "genuine question" but you will not listen and will argue to the last over something that is so strikingly obvious to anyone with objectivity.

[Sephiroth]

as KK says - you and your all lives matter

"Does expressing concern for men's deaths in anyway lessen concern for women's deaths or violence against them"

yes it does lessen concern for women's deaths - because they are not happening in same way, or for same reasons. And you just aren't engaging with that at all. The moment to moment fear for women is not even same ballpark as men - and it isn't because they don't handle fear as well as men

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> you will not listen and will argue

> to the last over something that is so strikingly

> obvious to anyone with objectivity.

Pot. Kettle.

[Sephiroth]

spouting trite cliches gives you nothing Cat. Nothing

Make your case or don't start provocative threads

[TheCat]

Yes the subject is contentious. Should we only allow rather dull threads which everyone already agrees on?

But why do you (and KK on this occasion) always have to make thread so antagonistic and personal. Try actually discussing the issue, instead of just rubbishing any view that's different to your own.

I don't have a case or agenda. I asked a question.

Oh and cliches are cliches for a reason. And that one was very appropriate.

[Sephiroth]

it isn't a contentious subject - women are far more at risk than men. You've decided that man v man and man v women should be some sort of equal debate

why do "you" have to make it personal - that will be mostly you

"Sigh...what a ridiculous, hyperbolic and petty. response."

"Pot. Kettle."

You do have an agenda - it's why you started this thread

"Oh and cliches are cliches for a reason. And that one was very appropriate."

gibberish spouted to make you feel better

but I beg you - stop pretending that men vs women in terms of deaths, violence or abuse is even stevens

[TheCat]

Sigh (again)....why do you always make things into a fight.

It's not about men versus women. You're the one making it as such. Again, it's not one or the other...

" I beg you - stop pretending that men vs women in terms of deaths, violence or abuse is even stevens"

I've not suggested anything of the sort. you're projecting. I simply made a factual comment abou the differing coverage in one episode of the news...and you've extrapolated with your own prejudice to try to paint me as some gollem.

Yes I like to discuss contentious issues and hear what other people think. If that's too 'provocative' for you...then don't comment on the thread....

[siousxiesue]

https://globalnews.ca/news/6536184/gender-based-violence-men-women/

This is a good start for reading about gender based violence. Canadian stats but pretty universal

[malumbu]

It's a valid question so not sure why so many are up in arms.

Young men are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime. I expect that it is the vulnerability of women, the randomness of the murders and the nature of these that has led to an outcry.

I'd penned a longer response including two innocent men killed recently, and referring back to Stephen Lawrence (still shocked by the cover up and incompetence of the police) but it seemed rather macabre and took me to a section in the Daily Mirror on line which made me think of the Victorian's obsession with murders.

[KalamityKel]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's a valid question so not sure why so many are

> up in arms.

>

> Young men are far more likely to be the victims of

> violent crime. I expect that it is the

> vulnerability of women, the randomness of the

> murders and the nature of these that has led to an

> outcry.

>

> I'd penned a longer response including two

> innocent men killed recently, and referring back

> to Stephen Lawrence (still shocked by the cover up

> and incompetence of the police) but it seemed

> rather macabre and took me to a section in the

> Daily Mirror on line which made me think of the

> Victorian's obsession with murders.

Agreed!

Except I don't like the suggestion (generally) that women are vulnerable/weak blah blah blah any more so than a bloke.

If a vile creature is out to cause harm, gender, except for their own preference, doesn't mean much.

We can hope for equal coverage from the press but the press are the press... *sighs

[Earl Aelfheah]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The men who die? Usually in dispute with other

> men

>

> The women who die? Random unprovoked attacks

I?m not sure this is very fair. Many boys and men are victims of random attacks.

[malumbu]

The vulnerability comment was purely because of different physical strengths which of course is a sweeping statement. I want a world where men wouldn't seek to exploit this, and I think society has come a long way in recent decades - particularly as women's roles/expectations have changed, greater equality etc etc. I'm moving off topic but remember Andy Capp in the Daily Mirror when the used to have a regular scrap with Flo and such humour was seen to be totally acceptable(to be fair she gave as good as she took, so it wasn't encouraging wife beating).

[Sephiroth]

"I?m not sure this is very fair. Many boys and men are victims of random attacks."

rereading that, I'm inclined to agree. I was trying to make a point - and failed

[ianr]

Sephiroth wrote:

----------------

> The women who die? Random unprovoked attacks

The article that siousxiesue linked to made the point, which I suspect most of us have long been aware of, that "women are killed largely by their intimate partners".

[Sephiroth]

"which I suspect most of us have long been aware of, that "women are killed largely by their intimate partners"."

correct and I did know that but absolutely banjaxed my own point - my own fault

[DuncanW]

Yes, that is quite inaccurate.

Almost half (46%) of female homicides are domestic violence related.

In year ending March 2020, 154 male homicides were perpetrated by a stranger, plus another 29 where no suspect has been charged.

There was a total of 188 murders of females in the same period.

If you are male, you are more likely to be murdered by someone you have never met, not the other way round.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020