Defending the indefensible - another PM thread

[KidKruger]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Why are you trying to drag poor old Jo Cox into

> this DR? Do you think a little emotional twang

> helps you?

>

> Open your eyes you fool and see how this incident

> is being used as another stick with which to beat

> Boris. People like you are like puppets on a

> string, dancing to others? tunes.

Can anyone tell me how many times Kier Starmer had been harassed on the street by people chanting ?Jimmy Savile? BEFORE Boris Johnson?s stupid statement a few days ago ?

Just to prove that Johnson had nothing to do with last night?s incident, like.

[KidKruger]

diable rouge Wrote:

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??.you're an apologist for Trump and the

> Capitol siege, so I guess this is small fry to

> you, big man...?

Get with the facts DR, the siege on the Capitol was ?valid political discourse?, the Republican Party have been very clear about that over the last couple of days. 🙄

[ianr]

203

[JohnL]

He's still not apologising and Kay Burley is still replaying what he said when a government minister comes on.

It looks even worse in retrospect.

He tried to link Starmer and Savile in the minds of the right wing and others.

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why are you trying to drag poor old Jo Cox into

> this DR? Do you think a little emotional twang

> helps you?

>

> Open your eyes you fool and see how this incident

> is being used as another stick with which to beat

> Boris. People like you are like puppets on a

> string, dancing to others? tunes.

Or, or, maybe???juuuuust maybe?Boris did a really stupid thing, the latest of many, and possibly he?s not really the political colossus that you think he is?

Honestly, if you?re intent on thinking Boris is some kind of decent human being just trying his best, then whatever gets you through the night mate. I mean, there?s *quite a lot* of evidence to the contrary, but you see what you want see.

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

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> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Sorry keano, you're a jokester of a poster,

> > pissed-up on Koolaid and long gone down the

> rabbit

> > hole.

> >

> > Do everyone a favour and go back to

> masturbating

> > into your sock while watching GB News...

>

> Charming. Weren?t you well brought up.

>

> And you have the audacity to criticise people

> calling Starmer names?

>

> Idiot

Mate, you lost the moral high ground a few years back. You?ve long since been one of the nastiest posters on here; you just dress it up in passive-aggressive ?arguments? and try to act like you?re being reasonable (spoiler alert, we can all see that you ain?t), but the fact is it?s pretty clear what kind of individual you are.

[keano77]

Thank you for your contribution j.a.

It is possible my debating style needs a bit of work but I?m not sure what you mean by ?one of the nastiest posters on here?

It strikes me what irks people is that I don?t sheep-like agree with them and it surprises them and annoys them. So for example, just because every newspaper, TV station, radio and most social media yesterday decided Boris was responsible for Starmer being harassed, and I disagreed, people get upset.

DR is one of those people who gets upset - the masks slips and swear words and filth spew forth from his mouth in personal attacks.

I?m intrigued j.a. That despite quoting such bile you make no comment whether it is acceptable on a public forum. Do you not consider any of that ?nasty??

[diable rouge]

Keano, don't flatter yourself, none of your comments has ever 'upset' me, but I will happily give short shrift to you, and anyone else for that matter, who is beyond sensible debate.

I mean, what planet is someone living on who questions that the whole Starmer incident might have been staged?

That's wacko territory and I've no problem calling you out for what you are.

The sell by date for reasonable debate with you passed a long time ago...

[keano77]

That?s better DR. A bit more rational.

[JohnL]

The conspiracy theory was that Starmer and Lammy arranged to be accosted by their own suppporters to cause more trouble for Johnson I guess. Order that horses head too.

One of the ringleaders of the little gang was an ex tory councillor so it doesn't seem likely.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19907570.will-coleshill-former-tory-councillor-mobbed-keir-starmer-amid-jimmy-savile-slurs/

[TheCat]

I've been busy with other things...you know...life....for the last few days anf have just caught up on this fascinating thread....

I'll upfront acknowledge that I dont like Boris at all, Johnson shouldn't have made the Starmer/Saville comment, and there is indeed no place for intimidation of politicians in Society.

Now for the bit that many of the posters above will not like so much....

The partisanship (a polite word for bias) just drips off most of the posts on here....and Keano is 100% correct that mask of tolerance completely slips from many of your progressive/lefty digital faces when someone makes an argument you dislike.

Keano is also 100% correct that the silence is deafening on abusive or aggressive language when it comes from posters who the 'EDF mob' philosophically agree with.

If I had seen any one of you call out DR for some of his disgusting, personal comments above...then I might be able to take this thread a bit more seriously when you have a go at people like keano....

But back to bias not specific to the EDF...it seems to me that when a right-wing politician gets shouted at and abused...its just people 'calling out' evil/stupid/arrogant/populist/dangerous/unjust figures; but left-wing politician gets shouted at and it's suddenly an 'intimidatory mob', and things like horrendous murders of left-wing politicans gets rasied as the clear directionj of travel (Just by way of case study...there must be about a dozen mentions of Jo Cox above, but not one mention of David Amisss....I wonder why that might be....?). Intimidation, abuse (oh..and murder) should be 'called out' regardless of which political colour is on the recieving end.

[diable rouge]

If I had seen any one of you call out DR for some of his disgusting, personal comments above...then I might be able to take this thread a bit more seriously when you have a go at people like keano....

I agree Cat, saying keano watches GB News was beyond the pale, please accept my wholehearted apology...

[diable rouge]

Hard to get a plumber these days since Brexit, even to fix a leaky tap.

Drip....Drip....Drip...Tinselgate...

Cummings reckons ''there's waaaaay better pics than that floating around, incl in the flat''

[j.a.]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you for your contribution j.a.

>

> It is possible my debating style needs a bit of

> work but I?m not sure what you mean by ?one of the

> nastiest posters on here?

>

> It strikes me what irks people is that I don?t

> sheep-like agree with them and it surprises them

> and annoys them. So for example, just because

> every newspaper, TV station, radio and most social

> media yesterday decided Boris was responsible for

> Starmer being harassed, and I disagreed, people

> get upset.

>

> DR is one of those people who gets upset - the

> masks slips and swear words and filth spew forth

> from his mouth in personal attacks.

>

> I?m intrigued j.a. That despite quoting such bile

> you make no comment whether it is acceptable on a

> public forum. Do you not consider any of that

> ?nasty??

I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave some hours ago.

[JohnL]

No10 do seem to drink a lot - I usually wait until after work.

[j.a.]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've been busy with other things...you

> know...life....for the last few days anf have just

> caught up on this fascinating thread....

>

> I'll upfront acknowledge that I dont like Boris at

> all, Johnson shouldn't have made the

> Starmer/Saville comment, and there is indeed no

> place for intimidation of politicians in Society.

>

> Now for the bit that many of the posters above

> will not like so much....

>

> The partisanship (a polite word for bias) just

> drips off most of the posts on here....and Keano

> is 100% correct that mask of tolerance completely

> slips from many of your progressive/lefty digital

> faces when someone makes an argument you dislike.

>

> Keano is also 100% correct that the silence is

> deafening on abusive or aggressive language when

> it comes from posters who the 'EDF mob'

> philosophically agree with.

>

> If I had seen any one of you call out DR for some

> of his disgusting, personal comments above...then

> I might be able to take this thread a bit more

> seriously when you have a go at people like

> keano....

Keano made his bed and can lie in it. While I see the logic of your argument generally speaking, Keano is being disingenuous at best in asserting that?s he?s above reproach. His posting history contains numerous examples of his personal style of nastiness. I personally find the idea that he?s the injured party pretty laughable, given his online behaviour over time.

>

> But back to bias not specific to the EDF...it

> seems to me that when a right-wing politician gets

> shouted at and abused...its just people 'calling

> out'

> evil/stupid/arrogant/populist/dangerous/unjust

> figures; but left-wing politician gets shouted at

> and it's suddenly an 'intimidatory mob', and

> things like horrendous murders of left-wing

> politicans gets rasied as the clear directionj of

> travel

If you don?t think there aren?t many parts of the internet where the opposite is true then I?ve got a bridge to sell you.

This is the internet. It?s all a variety of echo chambers.

(Just by way of case study...there must be

> about a dozen mentions of Jo Cox above, but not

> one mention of David Amisss....I wonder why that

> might be....?). Intimidation, abuse (oh..and

> murder) should be 'called out' regardless of which

> political colour is on the recieving end.

Jo Cox was murdered by a white extremist, David Amess by an Islamic extremist.

Speaking bluntly, I think it?s because there?s a widespread acceptance of the existence of the latter, but still quite a lot of resistance in some circles to the idea of the former, which some people feel is an unrealistic assessment of our society. No doubt both murderers are mentally unhinged.

[diable rouge]

I was initially going to include Amess alongside Cox, but after thinking about it I didn't feel they were the same, in that Cox's murder was clearly political i.e. she was specifically targeted for being a 'treacherous' Remain supporting Labour MP, whereas Amess' murder was fueled by religion not his politics, he could've equally been a Labour politician.

Had Starmer been murdered, that too would've been solely political, and was very similar to Cox's with calls of 'traitor' echoing around Whitehall.

Adding Amess felt like a false equivalence in that he was killed for different reasons...

[Chick]

This is fun!

[Sephiroth]

for now, let 's leave aside the self-aggrandising "hello peeps, you've probably been wondering I have been these last few days" schtick

let's stop with the false-equivalence. Keano has a long long history (along with uncle) of not just being "right wing" but outright wrong and offensive. If people lose patience and call him on it that doesn't mean we drop the "mask of tolerance"

Subject at hand - Johnson is not some right wing politician that we are calling out just because. Plenty of tory voters, MPs and tory lords are all too aware of the dangerous line he is crossing - so don't try and pin this on "us"

If I paint "tory" or even "fascist" on your house - I will be wrong, out of order and worthy of scorn. but you will be ok

If I paint "paedo" on your house - all of those things will still be true about me - but your life will be considerably worse

That is the line Johnson crossed this week (leaving aside ALL of the other lines he has crossed"

This isn't about some leftie politician not being able to take some insults - this was a direct intervention by the prime minister of th eUK - knowingly, KNOWINGLY, putting Starmer at risk

everything else is just noise. So any defence of Johnson or any deflection, any "oh but".. is just horseshit

Condemn this for what it is

And if you have a problem with Starmer or any other Labour politician you disagree with by all means let';s talk about it on that thread (plenty of scorn for Corbyn ono here over the years - and rightly so. This idea that lefties get a free ride is nonsense)

[keano77]

So the cabal is now judge and jury as to what is right and wrong. You couldn?t make it up.

Translation - anyone who doesn?t agree with us is wrong and offensive.

Dear oh dear.

[Sephiroth]

as usual, you ignore any of the points made, so you can do one of your "cabal" posts

What is right or wrong is right or wrong - pretty much everyone agrees what Johnson did was wrong - nothing to do with EDF posters. Right across the political spectrum, Johnson is condemned for this - deal with that and stop fretting about your imaginary "cabal"

[keano77]

I?m not aware anyone is disputing that Boris implying Starmer was to blame for not prosecuting Savile was wrong.

The dispute arose about whether Boris was responsible, or caused, Starmer to be harassed. Which of course was nonsense no matter how many media outlets tried to push that view.

[diable rouge]

Deary me. I had hoped with a new Leader of the House replacing the pantomime toff, we might get some much needed gravitas from the new incumbent.

But no, same old same old...

People in the "real world" don't care about parties held in Downing Street during lockdown

[teddyboy23]

I see number 10 downing street was built on the site of a old brewery .perhaps Boris and co were really working.and just stumpled on some old stock

[Sephiroth]

"Which of course was nonsense no matter how many media outlets tried to push that view."

as KidK pointed out, show me all the times Starmer was called a paedo by a mob before Johnson's comments

So, "nonsense" - hardly

Anyway - the MAIN aim of Johnsons comments was to plant the seeds for the upcoming election campaign where he (or his replacement) will be able to pick up votes from some of the more, impressionable, members of the public

But sensible you will of course be able to say this is all "nonsense" again