It's going to be tough on families

[Spartacus]

Today we saw two increases to family spending:

A 54% rise in the energy price cap

A .25% rise in interest rates

Both fuelled by a global bounce back from the pandemic and the Bank of England are predicting inflation of around 7%

It's going to be tough on so many people and despite the chancellor giving us council tax rebates in April plus a ?200 "loan" in November it's going to squeeze a lot of family budgets

Let's wait to see how much our council tax bills rise in April to put the icing on the cake.

We're doomed Captain Mainwearing, we're doomed

[indiepanda]

Why only families?

Do people who live alone not have energy bills or mortgages?

[Spartacus]

Of course they do but can you imagine the title if I included everyone

e.g It's going to be tough on families, single people, pensioners, war heroes, non binary people and the general unwashed? 🤔

The title was generic but I forgot how people like to nit pick on here. 🤣

[diable rouge]

''Of course they do but can you imagine the title if I included everyone e.g It's going to be tough on families, single people, pensioners, war heroes, non binary people and the general unwashed?''

I thought you had it there for a moment.

How about It's going to be tough on...*cue drum roll*...everyone

[Spartacus]

Doh ... you're right 😱

[indiepanda]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ''Of course they do but can you imagine the title

> if I included everyone e.g It's going to be

> tough on families, single people, pensioners, war

> heroes, non binary people and the general

> unwashed?''

>

> I thought you had it there for a moment.

>

> How about It's going to be tough on...*cue drum

> roll*...everyone

Exactly!! I wasn't trying to be all snowflakey, but there's no need to go making out one group is the only one to suffer when the vast majority of people are adversly affected in some way by the financial mess the country is in.

The policians all seem to go on about "hard working families" as if other groups don't matter, I don't understand it. Maybe they think they are more likely to change who they vote for at the next election??

[TheCat]

I think Spartty is okay to say 'families'.....families can take all different forms these days...its doesnt just define the traditional nuclear family....and in anycase living alone doesnt mean one doesnt have a family...but fair 'everyone' might just be easier....:)

Back in the general direction of the topic.....

While people can point to 'global' gas prices, brexit, supply chain issues etc etc etc as being the cause of the current inflationary cycle...all of that missing the real, main 'cause' (which actually is the driver of some of thsoe thigns i've listed)...lockdowns...if you shut down society ? that is, restrict productive activity, across almost the entire world ? while at the same time pumping vast amounts of money into the economy via fiscal stimulus, monetary stimulus, business relief and furlough schemes, then you are going to have inflation.....whether that be through global gas prices, tansport costs, food costs, or whatever...it was always going to happen.

So I truly hope that the people who argued (and a fair arguement too) that the life saving nature of lockdowns during a pandemic massively outweight the economic implications.....are now not also the same people moaning about massive inflation and rtising costs of living...somewhow I dont think thats probably the case....

[diable rouge]

I think most sensible people realised that there would have to be some payback for the lockdowns etc, so it's more a case of how.

Surprised the Gov in its current plight missed the open goal of a windfall tax on the energy companies, who are making huuuuuge profits on the back of energy price rises. Seems Sunak didn't want to 'put off investors'.

Profits before people, I wonder how that will go down in the Red Wall...

[diable rouge]

The ?200 'loan' seems to echo the prevalent Wonga economics of 'buy now pay back later' of financing purchases, albeit without extortionate interest rates, which originally used to be for one-off big-ticket purchases, but has now crept into mainstream weekly grocery/clothes shopping.

Despite no interest, they still have to be paid back, and I suspect this 'loan' is just going to add to an already ticking time-bomb...

[TheCat]

An Oil & Gas windfall tax, may indeedd be a decent way to claw back some money. But who are you taxing? Companies that are produce gas in the UK? - most of them barely make a profit most of the time, this country's domestic gas production industry is well past the 'decline' stage (take note indepednent scotland supporters). Companies that are listed in the UK and produce gas elsewhere in the world? So we would effectively be forcing up other countries energy prices. What about the ~40% of energy (inclouding gas) that the UK use that it actually imports? The companies importing arent making a windfall, they're the ones paying the high prices. Anyway...not saying it cant be done, but while its a nice soudbite when you're in opposition (easy votewinner to rage against faceless, big, dirty oil companies!), it is much more difficult to apply in practice to rasie an amount that will actually make a tangible difference...

Anyway.....that aside, not sure I agree that 'most sensible people' were really fully aware of what they were asking for (economically speaking) in supporting lockdowns. And now that the piper wants to get paid it seems that 'most' people are searching around for anyone but themselves to blame...

from the indy....

"Sixty-nine per cent of voters say ministers are to blame for rising energy prices, ahead of household energy providers (65 per cent) and the regulator Ofgem (58 per cent). Only oil and gas companies themselves, the windfall tax targets, are seen as more blameworthy, with 78 per cent of voters saying they bear responsibility for the energy crisis"

Im not saying people shouldnt moan about rising cost of living, and im not saying that the government shoulodnt try to help them more....im just saying that people shouldnt just brush off the consequences of lockdowns like it was always going to be a minor inconviencne. Im sure you (and others) would ask brexiteers to 'own' the finacial impacts of brexit...fair enough...so lockdown advocates (of which there are a great many in the opposition parties) should also 'own' the root casue of much of the inflation we're now seeing...

[diable rouge]

''not saying it cant be done, but its a nice soudbite when you're in opposition (easy votewinner to rage agaist faceless, big, dirty oil companies), but much mroe difficult to apply in practice to a degree that will actually make a tangible difference...''

Oh I agree, rightly or wrongly, this will ultimately be about 'politics' rather than prudent economics. People won't give a fig about economic intricacies when the bills start landing on the floor.

''...not sure I agree that 'most sensible people' were really fully aware of what they were asking for (economically speaking) in supporting lockdowns.......Sixty-nine per cent of voters etc''

I never said sensible people were in the majority, after all 'a majority' voted for Brexit...

[TheCat]

no no no...it was only a majority of people who voted, not an actual majority....the rest of the people who didnt vote were all against it i've been told:)

but anyway....lets not drag this into another 'B' debate....

In ancyas, its all rather the depressing if a majority of senisble people still equal a tiny minority of all people....

[diable rouge]

What's been the most interesting about recent polling is that Labour is now ahead on who would be best for the economy, which is very unusual, and I can't see anything that's been suggested today that will change that perception...

[Spartacus]

As it's a global issue (oil and gas prices) it wouldn't have mattered if we went into a lockdown or not as most of the world did.

Blaming the people who wanted a lockdown isn't going to help.

It's not an easy fix as global multinationals are putting their prices up to meet demand (there isn't a shortage of raw products) and the wholesale global market needs to be tackled rather than individual governments trying to put a sticking plaster on it.

Maybe there needs to be a global collection of governments working together to garner the wholesalers into better prices.

[JohnL]

indiepanda Wrote:

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> Why only families?

>

> Do people who live alone not have energy bills or

> mortgages?

I'm a family - just a family of 1

[JohnL]

Current Government help is ?

Everyone gets 200 help towards gas/electricity

Those living in Council Tax bands A-D Get 150 council tax help

Not sure it was the best way - I get both though - My flat is still B.

[Waseley]

I expect that it won't be tough on many around here who have the money to spend 100s of thousands extending their property. They've had the benefit of house price inflation, low interest rates, and some will have inherited small fortunes. Think of the next generation in particular those that won't be benefitting from family with money in property.

[Waseley]

Perhaps a single party state and a planned economy... Oh wait a second that was tried and failed in the last century!

[Sephiroth]

Other countries, of course, take a different view to England

https://bylinetimes.com/2022/02/03/rishi-sunaks-help-for-energy-firms-show-who-hed-serve-as-prime-minister/

[KidKruger]

Waseley Wrote:

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> I expect that it won't be tough on many around

> here who have the money to spend 100s of thousands

> extending their property. They've had the benefit

> of house price inflation, low interest rates, and

> some will have inherited small fortunes. Think of

> the next generation in particular those that won't

> be benefitting from family with money in property.

There are many people around here spending ?200,000+ on their extensions ?

Why do you think that ?!

[Waseley]

Just watching the Brown Blair documentary. Perhaps the double inheritance tax allowance that favours those more insulated from these financial pressures could be used to support those who will struggle.

[Seabag]

Be honest as well , there?s lots of people who might not like it, but does it really effect them, really really?

No, much of ED is fairly insulated in its bubble.

I live in Sevenoaks now, another bubble.

But it does give us all something to gripe about.

[TheCat]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Be honest as well , there?s lots of people who

> might not like it, but does it really effect them,

> really really?

>

> No, much of ED is fairly insulated in its bubble.

>

> I live in Sevenoaks now, another bubble.

>

> But it does give us all something to gripe about.

Do you have any idea how much it cost to heat a ?200K extension??!!

[Seabag]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Be honest as well , there?s lots of people who

> > might not like it, but does it really effect

> them,

> > really really?

> >

> > No, much of ED is fairly insulated in its

> bubble.

> >

> > I live in Sevenoaks now, another bubble.

> >

> > But it does give us all something to gripe

> about.

>

>

> Do you have any idea how much it cost to heat a

> ?200K extension??!!

About a weekend?s worth of gak?

[Spartacus]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Be honest as well , there?s lots of people who

> might not like it, but does it really effect them,

> really really?

>

> No, much of ED is fairly insulated in its bubble.

>

> I live in Sevenoaks now, another bubble.

>

> But it does give us all something to gripe about.

Are you the "boy in a bubble" ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_in_the_Plastic_Bubble

It may be okay for some but not everyone