Ukraine situation

[JohnL]

I'd never have guessed - but really do they take her this seriously or are they just scapegoating her.

"There were statements by various representatives at different levels about possible conflict situations and even confrontations and clashes between Nato and the Russian Federation,? Dmitry Peskov, Putin?s spokesman, said. ?We consider such statements absolutely unacceptable. I will not name the authors of these statements, although it was the British foreign secretary."

[Nigello]

Headlines are just that - a thumbnail sketch that compress details into a necessarily small space. Understanding how media works is worth knowing about, even teaching in schools, though this does not excuse shoddy reporting. (The word AS here is doing a lot of work, even some work that it is not meant to be doing - ie. linking fact A with B when really it is simply saying A is happening alongside B.)

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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I'd never have guessed - but really do they take her this seriously or are they just scapegoating her.

Typical Liz Truss, everyone knows ''Opening up pork markets!'' is code for nuclear Armageddon...

[malumbu]

Quoting from a letter to the Guardian: we should acknowledge the serious error of western powers, in particular America and Britain, who responded to the collapse of communism in eastern Europe in 1989-90 with a spirit of triumphalism. The ensuing humiliation and isolation felt by the Russian people was exactly the sort of climate would-be nationalist demagogues are able to exploit to dangerous effect, and Vladimir Putin?s egregious attack on Ukraine is now an outcome for which we in the west are, at least partly, responsible.

https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,2261423,2264229,page=4#msg-2264229

Echoes of Germany after 1918 following the humiliation and the terms put in places by the allies leading to the rise of national socialism

[diable rouge]

:)...

"Tubby custard, tubby custard, this is pork markets, do you copy? The photographer has arrived, I repeat, the photographer has arrived"

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Quoting from a letter to the Guardian: we should

> acknowledge the serious error of western powers,

> in particular America and Britain, who responded

> to the collapse of communism in eastern Europe in

> 1989-90 with a spirit of triumphalism. The ensuing

> humiliation and isolation felt by the Russian

> people was exactly the sort of climate would-be

> nationalist demagogues are able to exploit to

> dangerous effect, and Vladimir Putin?s egregious

> attack on Ukraine is now an outcome for which we

> in the west are, at least partly, responsible.

>

> https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?

> 20,2261423,2264229,page=4#msg-2264229

>

> Echoes of Germany after 1918 following the

> humiliation and the terms put in places by the

> allies leading to the rise of national socialism

This same feeling of humiliation and isolation is how many of us feel about our loss of EU citizenship

And the government is acting triumphant.

[JohnL]

Oh well after my remoan - as I said in a bit of a mood.

I notice Roman Abramovich has been recruited by the Ukrainians to try and negotiate peace.

[JohnL]

Provocative or Just ?

The European parliament will on Tuesday adopt a resolution calling on the EU institutions to work towards granting EU candidate status to Ukraine and in the meantime to continue to work towards integration into the EU single market,

[JohnL]

Looks like a war crime investigation has started for using Cluster bombs against civilians.

[yeknomyeknom]

I wonder, if this happened in London where would we go in East Dulwich in the event of a raid? We would have to travel toward the problem to get to an underground station.

[Spartacus]

Or Chislehurst Caves

[yeknomyeknom]

Hmm, but if you go to the London Underground you have a good chance of finding it open. Either of the above could be gated and locked. You would have to be well equipped to get in. You would have to get to Chislehurst caves first, most likely on a bicycle. Not sure I?m fit enough 🤣

[Sue]

Well, this is cheery ....

[Seabag]

Sue Wrote:

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> Well, this is cheery ....

Time for a Sloe Gin Sue

[DulwichFox]

If there were to be a Nuclear attack on the UK. most of us would probably not know much about it.

Do we have a warning system. ??

We used to talk about 'a 4 Minute warning'

what can anyone do in 4 Minutes.

With missiles with Multiple warheads... each with a 3 - 5 mile Fireballs melting steel and vapourising people

and a 10 - 15 mile + total distruction

Just one warhead over central London taking out everything out as far as Brixton and Croydon.

even if it were posible to find shelter, what would anyone be coming out to ?

where would people go ? How would they get food ?

As soon as any attack was likely public transport will be shut down.

The Royal Family would of been moved out of the Country.

the government moved to safety. Also out of the country or in Deep Level Bunkers.

There would be Nowhere for the general Public to go.

Most people would be killed instantly. Better than surviving..

[JohnL]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> We used to talk about 'a 4 Minute warning'

> what can anyone do in 4 Minutes.

Hmm

There is a song "four minute warning"

[malumbu]

Wrap yourself in silver paper put a sandbag on your head

Crawl inside your fall-out shelter underneath your garden shed

Boil an egg, have a cuddle, cut your toe-nails, make the bed

By the time this record's finished, everybody will be dead

For those that do not wish to die, raise up your voices to the sky

And sing away the missiles

Wash your smalls, feed the cactus, telephone your uncle Fred

By the time this record's finished everybody will be dead

With respect to the great Ian Dury

[malumbu]

Tad over-reaction P3Girl. It's great that you know so much about the USSR, Russia and military conflict, but I am surprised that you do not accept that there are other opinions rather than play the anti woke card.

So what happened to those heady days of the late 80s and early 90s, glassnost, perestroika, climaxing with the break up of the Soviet Union? How did it end up this way? Did the West contribute one iota, surely it can't all be Germany's fault? If half the population is progressive and looking to the West then how come the state machinery can continue to exert so much control? And in this 'new Russia' that you are looking forward to how would Russia be accommodated in the Western world??

Link to the Guardian letters here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-the-wests-role-in-this-unfurling-catastrophe

[JohnL]

An American former SACE just says Ukraine needs to take out every 10th Russian tank in the convoy.

He's talking about Decimation.

[JohnL]

"Based on my first-hand experience, I contend that my views have a solid foundation are more objective and better represent reality."

But I would state the opposite - it's all subjective.

If you have a Anti-Woke/Leave versus Woke/Remain agenda whichever side you are on you can't unite more than about half.

[TheCat]

JohnL Wrote:

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> "Based on my first-hand experience, I contend that

> my views have a solid foundation are more

> objective and better represent reality."

>

> But I would state the opposite - it's all

> subjective.

>

> If you have a Anti-Woke/Leave versus Woke/Remain

> agenda whichever side you are on you can't unite

> more than about half.

My apols John for perhaps being a bit trivial. But I think we need to not conflate having a 'view' or 'opinion' with having a 'agenda'....

Too often, people making uninformed assumptions about other people's 'agenda' torpedoes what could actually often be quite constructive discussions

I also don't believe that agreement on a whole range of things isn't possible between people who might hold opposing views on others in some critical areas. There's of course even the concept opposing positions being discussed and debated, which result in compromises and concessions to reach a consensus view.

Of course, all that said, this is the EDF....where division and tribalism is king...so ignore everything I said:)

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

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> My apols John for perhaps being a bit trivial. But

> I think we need to not conflate having a 'view' or

> 'opinion' with having a 'agenda'....

I remember Reagan saying that we would all unite if aliens invaded

He then got accused of having secret negotiations with aliens :)

[JohnL]

P3girl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> bjective and better represent reality."

> >

> > But I would state the opposite - it's all

> > subjective.

>

> I concede your point, I got my adjectives

> transposed. That aside it in no way diminishes the

> view expressed which is based on direct and

> intimate experience and research.

and I respect your view

Sky now interviewing the lady who challenged Boris who once again states "World War 3 has already started"

That sort of makes me shudder.

[DulwichFox]

With a 40 mile long convoy of Russian military vehicles heading for Kyiv

thousands of Russian Troops.. I do not think Putin is about to Nuke the place.

[jazzer]

Just consider the atrocities the Russian troops have perpetrated today, shows how indiscriminate the attacks are in their quest to take over parts of the Ukraine.