Cyclists could be made to have registration plates and insurance – report

[Rockets]

A bit of kite-flying/pandering to an audience by the govt here or does anyone think this will actually happen?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/16/registration-plates-and-insurance-for-cyclists-on-table-in-review-of-road-laws

Interesting to note that the hireable e-scooters seem to have some sort of visible number plate on them.

[Spartacus]

Rockets, I guess the logic is correct, all Road users should follow the rules, the issue will be in two areas

1. Cyclists protesting that they don't injure people in the same way a car does in a crash. However recent cases have highlighted that occasionally they do.

2. Enforcement, how would it be enforced and how much police time would be taken up or will there be a new council warden force set up ?

In theory I'm not against it as some cyclists do give the collective a bad name but there will be challenges to implementing it plus how will it work with under 16s who can't afford insurance or registration?

[malumbu]

Electric scooters are powered two wheelers Rocks so need to be licensed and insured. That's why they need registration plates. Disappointed that you haven't done your homework!

[Rockets]

I think the catalyst for this to happen will be revenue - if councils think they can make money from cyclists in the same way they do from cars via LTNs etc then that will be the tipping point for some form of traceable registrations. The "bikes don't kill people" is a bit of a smoke-screen/head in the sand by the cycle lobby as you see so many near misses with red-light jumpers and injuries do occur when people are hit by bikes - granted it probably won't kill you (although there was a case about a bike killing a pensioner a couple of months ago) but that should not be used as a defence.

Malumbu - welcome back - did you get bored of your self-initiated exile to the Lounge - we missed you?! ;-) And, ahem, I am afraid it is you that has not done their homework - e-scooters in the trials are not required to have registration plates....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users#:~:text=E%2Dscooters%20do%20not%20need,or%20pay%20vehicle%20excise%20duty.

On that note I didn't realise you needed to have a driving licence to use e-scooters in the trial - how is that monitored - do you have to add the details when you register for the service? This probably explains why they have plates on them because it is probably a pre-cursor to them saying that once the trials end e-scooter riders can get points on their licence - a very sensible move given some of the horrendous riding you see on e-scooters (more often than not illegal privately owned ones that have been souped-up for speed).

[exdulwicher]

  Quote

A bit of kite-flying/pandering to an audience by the govt here or does anyone think this will actually happen?

 

Part of me is wondering how much of it is a distraction away from the rail strikes tomorrow and Saturday, plus the TfL strikes on Friday (and/or cost-of-living, inflation etc)

Part of me wonders if he really is just that thick and opened his mouth without engaging his brain, particularly as another interview given to The Times he said: "I'm not attracted to the bureaucracy of registration plates. That would go too far."

And then part of me is thinking that it's as @Rockets says - the final dog-whistle / pandering to the voters during the last throes of this appalling Government.

None of it is remotely workable - even DfT have continually said that bicycle registration is pointless and unworkable so Shapps is off message from his own department.

However it's given the papers 2-3 days of clickbait joy.

Edit to pick up on @Rockets most recent post:

  Quote

I think the catalyst for this to happen will be revenue

 

It would cost more (hundreds of times more) to administer than it would ever make in revenue.

[Spartacus]

Ex

Just out of curiosity, why is it unworkable ?

Once the same sort of thing was possibly said about car driving licences, yet here they are.

There's less cyclists on the road then cars and drivers so it strikes me as possible but maybe not practical

[Siduhe]

  Quote

On that note I didn't realise you needed to have a driving licence to use e-scooters in the trial - how is that monitored - do you have to add the details when you register for the service? This probably explains why they have plates on them because it is probably a pre-cursor to them saying that once the trials end e-scooter riders can get points on their licence - a very sensible move given some of the horrendous riding you see on e-scooters (more often than not illegal privately owned ones that have been souped-up for speed).

 

I have a Lime account and when I signed up to use their e-scooters (which I've only done once - terrifying - give me an e-bike any day) I had to scan my drivers licence before it would let me unlock the scooter. It would be fairly easy to scan someone else's or scan a fake I would guess, not sure there was any back checking of my details, but it definitely requires you to do something to prove you have a licence.

[Spartacus]

Quick straw poll

ExDulwicher stated "None of it is remotely workable - even DfT have continually said that bicycle registration is pointless and unworkable"

What is everyone else's point of view

Workable or Not ? And why

This is separate to should it occur and I'm genuinely curious to see both sides of why it is or isn't workable

[malumbu]

For some reason my earlier post didn't go up. I'll try and summarise it

This comes up every few years to appeal to the right wing of the Tory party/Mail etc. It's a non-runner, Peter Walker's article could have been Ghost written by me, Ex, DKH, RRR others. But not Spartacus (that's a bit of humour).

Government cannot even introduce registration of electric scooters in their trial, how on earth would they do this with millions of pushbikes? There is no economic case

If HMG did want to do something useful it's improved standards and training for all road users

More cycling specific would be discouraging mobile phone use, and that could include scooters and pedestrians using roads. And discouraging cyclists on pavements, but that would mean other road users changing their behaviour in particular motorised vehicles, to be more amenable to sharing space

Lots on these issues in the past on the Lounge

[Spartacus]

Thanks Malumbu

Would be interested also in others points of view

One thought, regarding the economic case, if car use falls through schemes like LTNs then there may need for looking at other forms of revenue to pay for the upkeep of roads. In that scenario would you still be confident in saying there's no economic case ?

I agree about better training as most other road users have to undergo some form of training, but curious how it could be managed and enforced for cyclists as currently anyone can just jump on a bike and peddle furiously 🤔

[Sephiroth]

do countries with much higher bicycle usage have registration schemes like those suggested?

Does anywhere? Are they beneficial?

Apart from outliers like North Korea, the answer is no. Of course not

So why is it even being mooted at all? And why would anyone want to support it - genuinely?

[malumbu]

Government has a commitment that everyone can have free cycle training. Sadly TfL is no longer funding this, as training is not ring fenced under their grant. We all know the shortages it is facing and Shapps using this as a political blunt instrument.

So, so much for his commitment to cycle training. And no government would dare to compel drivers to have refresher training. Shame.

Revenues from vehicle excuse duty have fallen as we move to low carbon vehicles. It's general taxation so can be made up from other sources eg booze and fags.

[diable rouge]

What Seph said, bike-centric countries don't have such schemes as there's simply no need for them. How many deaths/serious injuries caused by cyclists are we actually talking about?

Would be interesting to know who's lobbying for such a scheme, the insurance companies perchance?...

[malumbu]

Middle England doesn't like cyclists, and this is stirred up by the media who paint them out as lycra warriors etc. The car lobby is also involved. The proposals are simply to appeal to these people.

[Spartacus]

  Quote

Middle England doesn't like cyclists, and this is stirred up by the media who paint them out as lycra warriors etc. The car lobby is also involved. The proposals are simply to appeal to these people.

 

I believe the term is lout as in "Lycra Louts" not warrior

The issue is a small minority of city cyclists who give others a bad reputation (speeding, jumping lights and so on) which is why there is a proposal to look at how to control that small minority.

Years ago we could go as fast as we wanted in our cars, then on Thursday morning June 1964, British rally driver Jack Sears reached 185 mph on the M1 motorway. Tabloids at the time had a field day, citing this as dangerous driving. From 22nd December 1965, the UK government trialled a 70mph limit on all motorways. In 1967 this became an official law.

Question is, with roads being increasingly shared by cycles, cars and pedestrians will something similar occur where a huge outcry causes a knee jerk reaction?

[DuncanW]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/aug/30/why-do-some-people-hate-cyclists-so-much

[malumbu]

Trouble is the Guardian is preaching to the converted. Even Rocks knows that this is disproportionate to the risks that cyclists present.

It's a non-story, I know enough people in government to confirm it ain't going to happen.

Shapps is just trying to appeal to the mass of motorists and others seething with anger. He will be gone soon, heaven knows which nutter Truss will put in his place