UKIP

[stacey-lyn]

A party of protest full of " fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists"?

Has the UKIP phenomenon been underestimated?

[StraferJack]

What's your take SL ?

[Jeremy]

My take on it is that in times of hardship, people look for someone/something to blame. EU/immigration is an easy target... but it's not the right one.

[StraferJack]

I won't dignify it as a "protest vote"

The message boards and phone ins are awash with deranged sociopaths

[????]

I think that's too simplistic Jeremy, I think they get a more anti-politics vote per se as well as protest about the EU

I think that many people feel completley disconnected from politicians (abroad too)who are from an ever shrinking set of backgrounds - insert Oxbridge/Public School (especially tories)/Policy wonk,journalist, legal backround, political families*, metropolitan, no propa jobs, etc.

*shite there are two households in the land, at least, where husband and wife are both MPs ...that's a bit greedy as there's 24 million households.

I *think their share of vote will fall in a GE, they are not getting my vote - most of their 'policies' are barking or don't add up, but I'm glad they've done well as it's making the mainstream parties think....... a bit

[????]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> I won't dignify it as a "protest vote"

>

> The message boards and phone ins are awash with

> deranged sociopaths

Rubbish PC SJ, the Guardian's meesage boards read the same most days. You really think the vote is not telling us/them something? I think there's plenty of honest, hardworking, people who care about this country who are voting for them (wrongly IMO) genuinely...yours and others metropiltan sneering is just as prejudice, and thoroughly predictabe

[StraferJack]

Wow you really managed to crowbar all the usual words in there didn't you quids? To what purpose?

I think you are right about people feeling disconnected from politicians but as ever they are welcome to step up to the plate. Vessels for protest votes are plentiful and people are encouraged to use them

But ukip are a different order entirely and although I note you say people are wrong to vote for them you allow way too much leeway. Honesty an hardworking as traits aren't especially useful in preventing thugs take power

If you said you know good people who voted or them instead of you think, it might be more meaningful

[Loz]

Left and right these days is so blurred. It'd be interesting to see who is voting UKIP. In the past, the LibDems have always gained a lot of the protest vote, though latterly the Greens and the BNP taking quite a bit. My guess is that the LibDem slump has gone mainly to Labour and UKIP has picked up a lot of the protest vote, together with disenchanted Labour and Tories in roughly equal numbers - for Tories, the more right wing side of the party and for Labour the traditional working class would be the most likely.

Most of the vote will migrate back to the big two come the general election, but there will be a lot of hard thinking going on today in both party HQs. UKIP gained just under a quarter of the vote and that cannot just be ignored.

[stacey-lyn]

There's no doubt they've made headway. They seem to be a disparate group with plenty of soundbites but little substance. From Farage, the Dulwich College old boy down to the odd BNP member turning up as council candidate (accompanied by Farage's feigned embarrassment) , they are certainly attracting the errant rightwing voter. Are they a lost tory tribe? Or masked villains? Perhaps there's a bit of both, but ultimately they are succeeding in capitalising on the general distaste and yes, they have been underestimated. Whether the other parties will now stop poo-pooing them and take heed will be a matter of time. Failure to take their influence and potential seriously though will be at their peril.

[El Pibe]

I seem to recall the BNP had a good day once, and I think most of their councillors have gone, not in the least because most of them were abolutely clueless, making for some amusing anecdotes in Private Eye.

I'm going with storm in a mid term teacup. Theyre simply not viable.

I read somewhere that in a brief bit on foreign policy in their manifesto they talk about supporting independence for Tibet and Taiwan (something even Taiwan aren't pushing for).

So that's the world's soon to be most important country utterly alienated then, well done chaps.

[Jeremy]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> I read somewhere that in a brief bit on foreign

> policy in their manifesto they talk about

> supporting independence for Tibet and Taiwan

> (something even Taiwan aren't pushing for).

Ah, yes. Sticking it to the Chinese... another scapegoat for the recession...

[uncleglen]

I know self-employed people in their late 40's and 50's who have children and a mortgage and when the influx of East Europeans came a few years ago they had an extremely tough time. They vote UKIP

[StraferJack]

And why exactly would that be uncle glen?

[????]

So all the UKIP are all thugs, I think you are taking all your views out of the Guardian and Twitter nowadays Strafer. I think most of their members, and a significant part of their voters and are a slightly pooterish, very 'english', set of small minded small c conservatives who are not Nazi's or racists, people you wouldn't be seen dead with no doubt and many Daily Mail readers no doubt but not some cloak for the EDL and willing volunteers for the Brownshirts? really?

They undoubtedly have also attracted many ex-BNP members and EDL followers and some have got into their party and stood absolutely, but is that them at the core, nope.

I see some lazy stereotyping believing what you see on the internet here and elsewhere from people who, ironically, should widen their social network a bit, but whilst everyone who has a different view from the 'urban consensus' is lazily and automatically dismissed as a semi-fascist, toe rag that's unlikely to happen.....

[StraferJack]

Odd post klaxon

[stacey-lyn]

On his departure, I recall Kilroy Silk branding UKIP as a joke. Farage's numerous appearances on Question Time were formulaic and you'd predict how he would fare - as a joke. He'd look like a fish out of water, talk bollocks - make wild erroneous unsubstantiated allegations and accusations, and was made to look like a buffoon. There was the mandatory raucous heckling and the lone mad audience member clapping loudly. But recently that's clearly changed despite the spiel being pretty much the same. Agreed with the storm in a teacup however UKIP has maneuvered itself into a position of some power.

Btw, is Max Clifford still their PR adviser and publicity guru (between clearing his name)?

[????]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Odd post klaxon

Avoid serious debate klaxon

[silverfox]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I know self-employed people in their late 40's and

> 50's who have children and a mortgage and when the

> influx of East Europeans came a few years ago they

> had an extremely tough time. They vote UKIP

I seem to remember a time before the influx of the Poles and Lithuanians when it was very difficult to get plumbers and other tradesmen. Half the time they failed to turn up and keep the appointment. When they did they charged high fees and the quality of work wasn't necessarily of a good standard. A bit of competition was for the best methinks.

[StraferJack]

Quids. You have been seriously debating on this thread? And I'm avoiding it?

You stop spouting buzzwords and putting words in people's mouths and maybe you'll have ground to stand on

[????]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> I won't dignify it as a "protest vote"

>

> The message boards and phone ins are awash with

> deranged sociopaths

Lol mr serious debater. You made your mind up and are sticking to it, I think you,re prejudiced by your own 'liberal' dogma.

[StraferJack]

Prejudiced against what exactly? What am I missing?

[Loz]

Well. you did seem to dismiss all UKIP voters as 'deranged sociopaths'. Seems a teeny bit prejudiced...

[El Pibe]

That's unfair, he was talking about the reaction, which could just as easily be a liberati overreaction to events.

Of course the phone ins and message boards are always awash with deranged sociopaths [in joke]irregardless[/in joke] of the news story.

[Jeremy]

I'm sure that a large proportion of their voters are just "normal" people. Not racists, not BNP sympathisers... just people who are disillusioned and frustrated, and soundbites from the UKIP have struck a chord with them. But that's how parties like this gain traction, by preying on the emotions of vulnerable people.

The example of Eastern European tradesmen is, as far as I'm concerned, another example of misguided people wanting something/someone to blame for their own predicament.

[El Pibe]

Immigration is of course just an easy scapegoat for globalisation, with a dodgy accent, with added bile.

Ultimately it may be PC to decry the complaints, but the complaints are simply pissing in the wind. You might as well complain about the death of the coal industry or the fact that you lost the Spanish civil war...oh yeah, you know....