LTN Discussion

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, march46 said:

There are literally shovels in the ground, pedestrianising it yet some on here are calling for a referendum on whether it should exist. Time to admit defeat and move on?

This is now the fourth time there have been shovels in the ground...how much more money can the council waste on this folly? 

I can't wait for the grand opening...I am sure the councillors will be grandstanding their handiwork and avoiding questions about why so much has been spent on one junction.

[raptortruckman69]

No we need to get cars back through that junction. Even with the queues of cars it was better than the mess we have now.

 

Frankly I think they should remove the barrier on Gilkes too while they are at it. They could make a high capacity gyratory down Gilkes, the Calton junction, Dulwich village and East Dulwich Grove.

[Earl Aelfheah]

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

…you should probably be questioning… why people are still challenging the council over their wastage of millions of pounds of tax-payers money.

 

Some of us are clearly not happy to turn a blind eye to such wastage.

…But would waste more on reversing it 🤔 

Edited September 18, 2024 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

You sound like a councillor trying to justify why they refused to make the changes when the emergency services said that the closures needed to be reopened as they were putting lives at risk. Why is it you all happily turned a blind eye to that? Do you think the emergency services were lying? Do you and the council have some ideological opposition to the emergency services or were they (and the people who needed them) just collateral damage?

At least you are acknowledging that they have wasted tax-payers money on it - one step at a time and all that!

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

19 hours ago, raptortruckman69 said:

They could make a high capacity gyratory down Gilkes, the Calton junction, Dulwich village and East Dulwich Grove.

Bit unambitious there, bud. If you look at a satellite map, if you demolished just one of the houses directly to the south of Gail's on Dulwich Village, you could get an access road into Dulwich Park. Then you'd just need to upgrade the surfacing to get a direct link to the Queen Margaret Gate and the South Circular. 👍👍👍

[first mate]

On 19/09/2024 at 07:04, Rockets said:

You sound like a councillor trying to justify why they refused to make the changes when the emergency services said that the closures needed to be reopened as they were putting lives at risk. Why is it you all happily turned a blind eye to that? Do you think the emergency services were lying? Do you and the council have some ideological opposition to the emergency services or were they (and the people who needed them) just collateral damage?

At least you are acknowledging that they have wasted tax-payers money on it - one step at a time and all that!

Spot on. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm still furious that they stopped cars driving through Dulwich Park in the 60s. 

[Rockets]

16 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

I'm still furious that they stopped cars driving through Dulwich Park in the 60s. 

Why because did that displace traffic onto other routes causing more congestion and pollution as part of efforts to create less congestion and pollution?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Of course. And there was no consultation. I blame the LCC. They hadn't broken cover / didn't officially exist then, but we know that they were still pulling the strings behind the scenes. Don't think we're moving on after only 60 years 

Edited September 20, 2024 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

Earl, congrats - that's by far the most well-thought and rational post you have made yet!!! I am glad you are finally seeing sense - it's taken you a while but glad you have finally joined us! 😉 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

5 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

I'm still furious that they stopped cars driving through Dulwich Park in the 60s. 

The 80s or early 90s, I thought...?

[Earl Aelfheah]

50 minutes ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

The 80s or early 90s, I thought...?

…you might be right about this, I wasn’t actually sure when they closed it to through traffic. Still furious though 😡 

[Spartacus]

20 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

…you might be right about this, I wasn’t actually sure when they closed it to through traffic. Still furious though 😡 

Ahhh the good old days 

It was akin to driving through Richmond park, only not so grand.

Still it's a good thing it's just a park now where people can gather, sit, relax and enjoy coffee.  Much nicer than being next to a smelly road or converted junction in my opinion. 

[Rockets]

40 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

…you might be right about this, I wasn’t actually sure when they closed it to through traffic. Still furious though 😡 

Was it a through route - I remember people parking around it?

[alice]

Cycling straight through the park was banned and you would get shouted at by the park keepers

[Penguin68]

I'm not sure you could normally exit out onto the South Circular, even then (it would have been a bad idea if you could) - I think you could drive between The Court Lane and Old College Gate entrances. Which was convenient but never an obvious cut-through for traffic, just useful for locals

[Rockets]

That's how I remember it - people used to park in the park (but it was a long time ago!).

[first mate]

Never a through route that I remember. People would park and visit, so really no different to now other than people pay to park. But it wasn't as though you ever had lots of people driving round the park or using it to get from A-Z. What has massively increased is cyclists using local parks as through routes and not all observe sensible speed limits. I have no issue with cyclists in the park other than when they use it as a velodrome.

To get this back on thread; do we know if cyclists will have to dismount and wheel through the pedestrianised Dulwich junction?

Edited September 20, 2024 by first mate

[raptortruckman69]

No Dulwich square will keep the cycle router so cyclists won't be legally obliged (just morally) to dismount. This adds insult to injury as far as I'm concerned.

 

On the plus side, the very expensive benches that the civil was going to discard Jane been reinstated. They are clearly still keeping an eye on places like this so we should keep making a fuss. It's a small sop, but better than nothing.

[Rockets]

5 hours ago, first mate said:

To get this back on thread; do we know if cyclists will have to dismount and wheel through the pedestrianised Dulwich junction?

I doubt it but looking at how narrow the cycle track currently is they might have to as that chicane will become problematic with the speed some cyclists hurtle down Calton.

[Earl Aelfheah]

You used to be able to drive through the park. It was actually one of the reasons the Dulwich Society was first formed (to campaign for it to stop). People could drive through from Dulwich Common to the Village entrance as well (not just court Lane).

[edited to add] according to Wikipedia cars have not been able to drive in the park since 2003 (?!). That seems very late and I’m sure you couldn’t cut through / use the gates then.

My dad certainly remembers driving through from the south circular, but can’t give you a timeline on that. Would be interested if anyone does know when it stopped. Like I said above I thought it was the 60’s or 70’s but could have been later.

Edited September 21, 2024 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

6 hours ago, Rockets said:

I doubt it but looking at how narrow the cycle track currently is they might have to as that chicane will become problematic with the speed some cyclists hurtle down Calton.

I think you are right, since this is an important through route it could get very busy. Will this area have lots of storage for e-bikes, I wonder?

Earl is now taking us off thread so suggest they do a new thread on the history of car access in Dulwich Park...this one is about LTNs. More pertinent is that DP is used as a through route for cycling commuters, including e-bikes.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

13 hours ago, raptortruckman69 said:

the very expensive benches that the civil was going to discard Jane been reinstated. They are clearly still keeping an eye on places like this so we should keep making a fuss. 

Or, you know, the original hysterical assumption that the workers are wasteful idiots who know nothing about their job was wrong.

[first mate]

Does anyone know if there are plans for extensive bike, e-bike and scooter storage at the newly reconfigured Dulwich Junction?

 

 

Edited September 21, 2024 by first mate

[raptortruckman69]

They will probably take whatever space remains for parking and hand them over to the LCC and lime!