Cyclists taking over paths!!

[first mate]

10 hours ago, malumbu said:

Do you cycle?  Unless (a) you are a competitive racer (b) going down hill with no traffic (c) on an illegal bike few cyclists do this speed.  Rather than daft suggestions like this start of with getting motorists sticking to 20mph

And, has been said too many times not practicable to have speedometers on bikes.

If barely any cyclists do 20mph then why the huge issue imposing it? With the advent and proliferation of e-bikes it is daft not to. Much easier and less confusing to have a speed limit that applies to all road users.

But, since this thread is about cycling on pavements, let me add that it is also really important that able-bodied cyclists dismount and walk when on single use footpaths. Over this weekend I have seen so many cyclists weaving in and out of pedestrians on pavements. I am so glad that in this regard, in the Vanity Square area at least, Southwark Council have realised there is a real and growing issue with this.

[Spartacus]

Hen hen hen 

Let's not turn this into a rant against motorists in an attempt to deflect the fact that cyclists just don't follow the rules and don't want to be brought into line.  Your response shows the typical cyclist arrogant view that they shouldn't be legislated against because car drivers are atill adjusting to the new speed limits, most of which have only just been introduced. 

If that's your sole argument for why cyclists shouldn't adhere to speed limits then frankly it's pathetically thin and bullturd.

[malumbu]

This was a fascinating meta study carried out under the Tories when there was general support for 20mph. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bf2bab940f0b6078acc6f4d/20mph-headline-report.pdf

It's a bit difficult to wade through but shows that around half of drivers exceed 20mph in residential areas, and 16 % when 20mph were adopted on roads that run freely ie where there is more congestion drivers adapt better to 20mph as they are used to doing lower speeds.

There are threads discussing 20mph and I have posted it before, but with the interest on this thread in somehow enforcing a 20mph limit for cyclists when very few do this speed I thought it worth reminding you.

Shame that more wasn't done after the publication of this report.  20mph zones have been with us for a number of years and new drivers will have learned on these roads.

Edited October 21, 2024 by malumbu

[Hen123]

6 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Hen hen hen 

Let's not turn this into a rant against motorists in an attempt to deflect the fact that cyclists just don't follow the rules and don't want to be brought into line.  Your response shows the typical cyclist arrogant view that they shouldn't be legislated against because car drivers are atill adjusting to the new speed limits, most of which have only just been introduced. 

If that's your sole argument for why cyclists shouldn't adhere to speed limits then frankly it's pathetically thin and bullturd.

I don’t even own a bike. 

[malumbu]

Oh dear Hen, get one and enjoy the benefits, Although I am afraid it is unlikely that you will be breaking the speed limit.

[Spartacus]

36 minutes ago, Hen123 said:

I don’t even own a bike. 

So why the big fuss about making cyclists adhere to speed limit?

At least have a dog in the fight if you are going to bark like that! 

[first mate]

At the latest Environment scrutiny session very interesting to hear a Peckham Labour Councillor complaining about cyclists on pavements, next to cycle lanes, ringing at pedestrians on the pavement to move out of the cyclists way. She also comments on negative impacts of e-bikes.

There was also an interesting presentation on cultural barriers to cycling and it seems we have a very long route before it becomes the preferred mode of transport for anyone other than middle class white men. Other barriers mentioned, like high bike theft. Another councillor said he had given up owning a bike as he had so many stolen in recent years, in London. So there may be more places to store bikes in the street, but will they be secure?

Back to paving, clearly if councillors are expressing reservations in scrutiny meetings there is a real and growing issue with cycling behaviour.

 

[Rockets]

FM do you have the link to the session?

[malumbu]

There are a lot of people who are not white middle class that cycle. 

[first mate]

Maybe you need to present your evidence to Southwark Council scrutiny, as there is a view that in this borough (not the borough you live in, I know) there is an issue.

[malumbu]

It is good that you are looking to increase the diversity of cyclists.  Perhaps you could do more to championing this mode of transport, rather than demonising cyclists, including white middle class males.

This will Norman chap appears to be getting involved 

https://bikebiz.com/london-cycling-commissioner-sets-sights-on-diversity/

[Hen123]

On 21/10/2024 at 15:13, Spartacus said:

So why the big fuss about making cyclists adhere to speed limit?

At least have a dog in the fight if you are going to bark like that! 

I don’t make a big fuss about it. Cyclists aren’t in anyway a danger to the public in comparison to the danger other road users are. 

13 hours ago, first mate said:

At the latest Environment scrutiny session very interesting to hear a Peckham Labour Councillor complaining about cyclists on pavements, next to cycle lanes, ringing at pedestrians on the pavement to move out of the cyclists way. She also comments on negative impacts of e-bikes.

There was also an interesting presentation on cultural barriers to cycling and it seems we have a very long route before it becomes the preferred mode of transport for anyone other than middle class white men. Other barriers mentioned, like high bike theft. Another councillor said he had given up owning a bike as he had so many stolen in recent years, in London. So there may be more places to store bikes in the street, but will they be secure?

Back to paving, clearly if councillors are expressing reservations in scrutiny meetings there is a real and growing issue with cycling behaviour.

 

Would you like to spend two hours walking around East Dulwich with me so you can show me all these cyclists on the pavement? 

Edited October 27, 2024 by Hen123

[first mate]

A local Labour councillor said there is an issue- do you think they were making it up?

11 hours ago, malumbu said:

It is good that you are looking to increase the diversity of cyclists.  Perhaps you could do more to championing this mode of transport, rather than demonising cyclists, including white middle class males.

This will Norman chap appears to be getting involved 

https://bikebiz.com/london-cycling-commissioner-sets-sights-on-diversity/

It is Southwark Labour who have identified an issue and are looking for ways to resolve it. Are you saying they are demonising white middle class males?

[malumbu]

No people on this site are (demonising cyclists, in particular white middle class male cyclists).  I assumed that as you had raised the issue about diversity, it was something that you were keen on. I am, and I have done something about it.  But that is my private matter.

[first mate]

Malumbu but you replied to my post with the following:

"Perhaps you could do more to championing this mode of transport, rather than demonising cyclists, including white middle class males."

So what did you mean by the above, exactly?

[Rockets]

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2024/oct/31/cycling-clampdowns-city-councils-danger

Interesting article as councils try to wrestle with the problem of bad cycling and the risks to pedestrians and balancing that with the need to promote active travel.

[malumbu]

Back to the conversation about diversity.  Thought I had posted this earlier.

This Wiill Norman chap appears to be getting involved 

https://bikebiz.com/london-cycling-commissioner-sets-sights-on-diversity/

[Rockets]

Mal, to be fair Will has been trying to address that for years as it has been part of his strategic goals and it is clear whatever he has been doing hasn't been working - cycling still has a massive diversity problem and that ultimately rest with him (which is probably why he is "weighing up" diversity targets as the buck ultimately stops with him and Turkeys don't vote for Christmas!)

Just take a look at the LCC's leadership team - it's very much reflective of the problem cycling faces.....https://lcc.org.uk/team/

Edited October 31, 2024 by Rockets

[Dulwich dweller]

3 hours ago, malumbu said:

Back to the conversation about diversity.  Thought I had posted this earlier.

This Wiill Norman chap appears to be getting involved 

https://bikebiz.com/london-cycling-commissioner-sets-sights-on-diversity/

This article is from October 2021 and painted a more positive light. What can be done to make cycling more diverse?

 

https://bikebiz.com/new-tfl-data-shows-that-people-cycling-in-london-are-more-diverse-than-ever/

[first mate]

Two nights running, have witnessed cyclists going at top speed through Dulwich Sq cycle area, not slowing down or paying heed to pedestrians crossing. Saw several go through red lights at same junction. Another separate three forced pedestrians to stand aside while they cycled through the extremely narrow area reserved for pedestrians, next to the fenced off roadworks, adjacent to Dulwich Sq. They also ignored the cyclists on diversion sign. Not a great thing to do at night either.

[malumbu]

A discussion on diversity is more interesting to me than reporting transgressions,  That is not really a discussion.

No doubt the range of cyclists is broader than before.  But it, like most activities in London including work, education and leisure, will not, and cannot, fully reflect the make up of the capital,  A good comparison is if you take a trip to Dulwich Park and to Horniman Gardens, and whilst it's not a mono culture, it will be predominantly middle class.  Horniman in particular strives to be diverse, at times when they have events targeting the young, there is some success,  But go into the galleries and most days of the week and it is not like that.

How you engineer and or legislate for this I don't know without middle England getting all angry and talking about woke agendas (what a horrid pejorative term this is for people making the world a better and more equitable place). 

The Met has made big efforts following the charge of institutional racism not once but twice, but in a 2020 question to the Mayor: "Recent figures on ethnic diversity in UK police forces showed that although black individuals make up 13.3% of London's population only 3.5% of Met Police officers are black. Furthermore, those of Asian heritage make up 17% of London's population, but only make up 5.9% of Met officers"

Relevance to cycling?  I doubt whether you can say it is just white middle class cyclists that have led to some of the annoyance expressed by some on this thread.

 

[first mate]

This is a forum where views are expressed, I am not that interested in whether you find them interesting or not.

The subject of the thread is cyclists taking over paths.

If you want to discuss diversity in greater detail then start another thread on that.

Again this evening, more cyclists running red lights at Dulwich Square.

[Guest]

Dulwich Junction is a nightmare at the moment,  The latest trick of some cyclists is to cycle on pavement outside burial ground on Dulwich Village to avoid waiting at the lights.  I was nearly flattened by an electric bike there today on the pavement.

 

[Rockets]

I saw the most amazingly stupid piece of cycling this afternoon at that junction. A middle-aged man and his son were cycling towards DV along Turney and, instead of waiting for the lights to turn green for cyclists, the dad tried to dash across the traffic on DV. But the teenage boy didn't realise his dad was about to try and play chicken with the traffic and so didn't go - his dad then grabbed him and kind of towed him through the traffic on DV and was narrowly missed by a Mercedes people carrier as they tried to weave their way through.

They finally got to the other side and the nearly mowed down a load of pedestrians who were crossing under the green pedestrian light at the entrance to Dulwich Square. The dad did apologise to the pedestrians but his actions were so stupid and I am not sure what he was trying to achieve other than maybe save a minute or two.

[Penguin68]

On 26/10/2024 at 12:26, first mate said:

There was also an interesting presentation on cultural barriers to cycling and it seems we have a very long route before it becomes the preferred mode of transport for anyone other than middle class white men.

I'm sorry, but what cultural barriers? Other than people who are not white middle class men choosing not to cycle - surely cycling is a prime example of people exercising personal choice (save where inhibited by age/ infirmity). Maybe it is cultural - but are you arguing that people should be forced to make personal choices which conflict with their culture to meet some form of imposed target? Of course that would be so where people of one culture were being actively restricted (for instance in employment opportunities, access to public transport etc.) but this is not the case here. Is anyone who is not a white middle class man being stopped by anyone else from cycling? There are many activities undertaken by others that I do not choose to emulate, but  if it's my choice then absolutely fine.

Of course, you may be saying that white middle class males are so aggressive and unpleasant on the roads that their behaviours inhibit others - but if you do there will be a chorus of disapproval of your 'attack' on people so close to angels that you can almost see their wings.