Cat deterrent going too far?

[froggy]

Our lovely neighbour evidently doesn't like cats in general - and our own in particular.

She is genuinely a lovely neighbour and I do understand that she gets annoyed with him defecating in her flower beds.  She's had plastic spikes at the top of the fence for a while, but she is now going too far I think...

She brought a bench and placed it strategically by the fence, as if to entice cats to jump on it from the top of the fence, and then covered it with barbed wire.  She did the same on the other side of her garden, this time with a table.

Clearly she isn't planning to use either the bench to sit down or the table to eat on (unless she is some kind of masochist, which I'm not aware of), therefore I think that these are traps designed to hurt.

Any suggestions from the forum as to whether this is legal and perhaps what can be done to have these cruel "devices" removed? 

Or perhaps I'm overreacting and she can do what she pleases in her garden - cruel or otherwise?

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by froggy

[IlonaM]

You could ask her why she has put barbed wire over them, or get some advice from the RSPCA who might pop by for an informal chat with her about animal welfare and humane cat deterrents.

[alice]

Cats learn very quickly. 

[IlonaM]

  On 10/09/2023 at 15:16, alice said:

Cats learn very quickly. 

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Will the lovely neighbour be paying for treatment of  injuries to cats or local widlife? There are a lot less injurious ways to deter cats etc. such as sprays, citrus peel etc.

[Mystic Mog]

'Lovely' ?

[Sally Eva]

Could you offer to put a bell on your cat?

Do you have a litter tray?

[Pugwash]

At a recent police meeting someone mentioned about putting barbed wire on fencing to prevent access. Police advised that this was only legal for above 3 metres but to check with council. I would get in touch with RSPCA and Southwark Environmental Services and maybe goggle  the Animal Welfare Act.

Even if a cat just jumps on the bench once, the wire can cause devastating  injuries. 

I suggest that you speak t o her and explain that her actions could be classed as animal cruelty and she could be liable for payment of any vet's fees around several hundred of pounds.

Many years ago one of our cats had to have her leg amputated as a loose brick from a neighbouring house's wall fell on her crushing her foot. We could not afford the vet's fees and had to go to the RSPCA clinic in Putney.

 

 

 

 

Animal Welfare Act 2006

 

18.The 1911 Act makes it an offence to cause unnecessary suffering to any domestic or captive animal, with limited exceptions including suffering caused under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986. The 1911 Act has formed the basis for most prosecutions concerning animal cruelty and has been amended by several subsequent Acts. The provisions of the 1911 Act no longer reflect modern practice. Excepting the restriction to vertebrates, this section is intended to replicate the protection provided by the 1911 Act, but to simplify and update the legislation.

19.Subsection (1) sets out the circumstances in which a person who causes an animal to suffer commits an offence. It will be an offence to cause physical or mental suffering, whether this is by a positive act or an omission, to a protected animal where this is unnecessary and the person knew or could be expected to know that an animal would suffer as a result. The effect of paragraph (b) is to introduce an objective mental element. It will not be necessary to prove that a defendant actually knew his act or failure to act would cause suffering.

20.Subsection (2) provides that a person responsible for an animal who permits another person to cause unnecessary suffering will commit an offence. He will also commit an offence if he fails to take reasonable steps to prevent the suffering from taking place, for example, a failure of supervision. An offence of ‘permitting’ unnecessary suffering caused by another can only be committed by a person in relation to an animal for which he is responsible. See further section 3.

of its medical treatment, the dog is a certified working dog and is not more than 5 days old. It also restricts the showing of docked dogs. A dog docked after this section comes into force can only be shown if it is for the purpose of demonstrating its working abilities.

2nable the appropriate national authority to make provision, for example, empowering an inspector to inspect a certificate or read a microchip on a dog.

 

 

 

 

[Baroness Millhaven]

  On 10/09/2023 at 14:41, froggy said:

Our lovely neighbour evidently doesn't like cats in general - and our own in particular.

She is genuinely a lovely neighbour and I do understand that she gets annoyed with him defecating in her flower beds.  She's had plastic spikes at the top of the fence for a while, but she is now going too far I think...

She brought a bench and placed it strategically by the fence, as if to entice cats to jump on it from the top of the fence, and then covered it with barbed wire.  She did the same on the other side of her garden, this time with a table.

Clearly she isn't planning to use either the bench to sit down or the table to eat on (unless she is some kind of masochist, which I'm not aware of), therefore I think that these are traps designed to hurt.

Any suggestions from the forum as to whether this is legal and perhaps what can be done to have these cruel "devices" removed? 

Or perhaps I'm overreacting and she can do what she pleases in her garden - cruel or otherwise?

 

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I'm really sorry but if she's capable of doing that, she's not lovely. She's incredibly cruel.

[d walker]

Although putting barbed wire in her garden is not illegal per se, should your cat be injured by it then she could fall foul of the animal welfare act ( causing unnecessary suffering to an animal). If she is "lovely " ( not a term I'd give her!), then I'd speak to her and advise her against this. I'm amazed at your tolerance towards her,  I certainly wouldn't be if she was my neighbour doing this! Good luck 

[Chick]

Suggest an ultra sonic cat deterrent?

[Sue]

Have you spoken to your "lovely" neighbour about this?

Maybe discussed between you if there's anything you can do to reach a mutually acceptable solution?

Is there anything you can do from your side to stop your cat going into her garden, or at least not crapping in it?

 Keep your cat inside for a few weeks so that s/he has to use a litter tray in the house, and gets used to doing that?

  On 11/09/2023 at 07:25, Chick said:

Suggest an ultra sonic cat deterrent?

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And offer to buy her one? 

I wouldn't be happy if I was her, either. It's revolting coming across catshit when you are gardening.

I love cats, but I'm frequently chasing them out of the garden because they stalk the birds. 

Very prickly plants like climbing roses around the boundaries would seem an effective and pretty solution , but that might not be feasible,  and they take a while to grow .

[Kathleen Olander]

Ask her politely what it is there for?  If you know your cat poos in her garden get a tray for your cat.

It will NOT deter a cat in any case.  Cats will just jump on the bit of bench without the wire or else just jump from fence onto paving.

[Pugwash]

Animal Welfare Act 2006

 

18.The 1911 Act makes it an offence to cause unnecessary suffering to any domestic or captive animal, with limited exceptions including suffering caused under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986. The 1911 Act has formed the basis for most prosecutions concerning animal cruelty and has been amended by several subsequent Acts. The provisions of the 1911 Act no longer reflect modern practice. Excepting the restriction to vertebrates, this section is intended to replicate the protection provided by the 1911 Act, but to simplify and update the legislation.

19.Subsection (1) sets out the circumstances in which a person who causes an animal to suffer commits an offence. It will be an offence to cause physical or mental suffering, whether this is by a positive act or an omission, to a protected animal where this is unnecessary and the person knew or could be expected to know that an animal would suffer as a result. The effect of paragraph (b) is to introduce an objective mental element. It will not be necessary to prove that a defendant actually knew his act or failure to act would cause suffering.

20.Subsection (2) provides that a person responsible for an animal who permits another person to cause unnecessary suffering will commit an offence. He will also commit an offence if he fails to take reasonable steps to prevent the suffering from taking place, for example, a failure of supervision. An offence of ‘permitting’ unnecessary suffering caused by another can only be committed by a person in relation to an animal for which he is responsible. See further section 3.

of its medical treatment, the dog is a certified working dog and is not more than 5 days old. It also restricts the showing of docked dogs. A dog docked after this section comes into force can only be shown if it is for the purpose of demonstrating its working abilities.

2nable the appropriate national authority to make provision, for example, empowering an inspector to inspect a certificate or read a microchip on a dog.

 

 

 

 

We often get foxes in our garden and fox poo is generally worse than cat's.

Cats usually wander off to nearby gardens and you cannot stop this. We have used cat litter in the past but it does not stop our cats having a stroll around ours and neighbouring gardens.

I suggest a quiet word with neighbour explaining that she might to setting herself up to breaking the law and also having to pay out vets fees. A prickly bush/hedge may be the best solution. If she refuses I would get in touch with RSPCA. Is she a council tenant? Could be classed as an anti social act and in violation of her tenancy agreement.

[Nigello]

Cats get used to crapping in a certain place. They’re often without collars and bells. I can see why she’s cheesed off but I think her solution is wrong. Just because you love cats you should not underestimate the annoyance of cat poo and injured/dead birds caused by wandering moggies with no bells on their collars. If you have a cat and it’s not got a bell then please put one on it! 

[Rockets]

If your cat is like our cat then I am sure it will go and sit itself on the bench next to the barbed wire just to troll your neighbour! 😉

[KalamityKel]

  On 11/09/2023 at 21:36, Rockets said:

If your cat is like our cat then I am sure it will go and sit itself on the bench next to the barbed wire just to troll your neighbour! 😉

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Can hope so! 

[froggy]

  On 11/09/2023 at 21:36, Rockets said:

If your cat is like our cat then I am sure it will go and sit itself on the bench next to the barbed wire just to troll your neighbour! 😉

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Yep!  That's exactly what happened 😂.  And he walks on the spike at the top of the fence (he seems to like the stimulation on his paws)!

I guess it's the first encounter with these traps that can be troublesome though.  Who knows what she'll come up with next...

The neighbour in question is also one who wants centenary ash trees to be taken down by the council (presumably because leaves fall in her garden), therefore I'm definitely no longer using "lovely" to describe her!

[Sue]

  On 01/10/2023 at 11:03, froggy said:

 😂The neighbour in question is also one who wants centenary ash trees to be taken down by the council (presumably because leaves fall in her garden), therefore I'm definitely no longer using "lovely" to describe her!

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I couldn't delete the emoji when editing the quoted post above. Not sure if that's a forum glitch or my own ineptitude.

I think unfortunately some people think about their gardens in complete isolation from any other context apart from their own convenience and preferences 😭

[Macet]

Definitely too far.

Are you offering to go over and pick up your cats poo from her garden? Or have you asked whether it’s causing any other damage (jumping on fences etc) to her property? Or leaving dead animals? 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Does she feel the same about foxes, squirrels, birds etc? Seems like an extreme (and slightly sadistic) response. Is she OK? 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Earl Aelfheah

[froggy]

  On 02/10/2023 at 00:30, Macet said:

Definitely too far.

Are you offering to go over and pick up your cats poo from her garden? Or have you asked whether it’s causing any other damage (jumping on fences etc) to her property? Or leaving dead animals? 

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She actually claims that the barbed wire is to deter crows from landing on her bench, go figure 😀

I can't offer mitigating action unless she complains about our cat, which she hasn't.  She's just put these traps around and mentioned the crows when challenged.

  On 03/10/2023 at 08:27, Earl Aelfheah said:

Does she feel the same about foxes, squirrels, birds etc? Seems like an extreme (and slightly sadistic) response. Is she OK? 

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I thinks she does.  I'm not sure she's ok, no.  But family do visit.

[alice]

Maybe you could visit too.