Should cyclists have the same speed restrictions as motor vehicles?

[alice]

Maybe 10 years ago, an adult would rarely cycle on the pavement now respectable men and women will be riding along on the pavements without hardly a swerve to avoid pedestrians It’s quite unnerving.  It has somehow been legitimised.

[DulvilleRes]

 

Peter Walker in the Guardian has written very well on this in article this week. he says 

No one becomes a saint when they start pedalling, and my long-held idea is that the very same people who zoom through a red light on a bike will also speed in a car, recline their seat as the meals are served on a plane or push past to get the last seat on a train. They are multi-modal nitwits.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/30/jeremy-vine-cyclists-bike-road-rage-abuse-drivers-politicians

The article is also very strong on the absurd culture war waged on cyclists, particularly on his local forum

[Rockets]

Yes, the very forum I suspect to which he refers to here (good to know he checks it regularly to check no-one has libelled him! ;-))

 

My local area has a thriving community website mainly based around things such as recommendations for plumbers and restaurants, or people selling sofas. But every now and then I feel the need to scan its pages to make sure a near-neighbour hasn’t libelled me. Why? Cycling, of course.

It's an interesting article in that it apportions blame onto everyone other than cyclists...even suggesting that bad cyclists are just bad drivers on bikes.

Perhaps when the likes of Peter Walker and Jeremy Vine take a long hard look at their role in creating the culture-war then there can be progress in addressing it.

Cyclists have a perception problem and until we look inwardly to address some of the problems that are of our own creating then no progress will ever be made and we will remain one of the msot despised groups. Blaming everyone else is not going to address the root cause of the problem. The majority of the problems are of our own making.

 

[malumbu]

2 hours ago, DulvilleRes said:

 

Peter Walker in the Guardian has written very well on this in article this week. he says 

No one becomes a saint when they start pedalling, and my long-held idea is that the very same people who zoom through a red light on a bike will also speed in a car, recline their seat as the meals are served on a plane or push past to get the last seat on a train. They are multi-modal nitwits.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/30/jeremy-vine-cyclists-bike-road-rage-abuse-drivers-politicians

The article is also very strong on the absurd culture war waged on cyclists, particularly on his local forum

Good article and puts everything nicely in perspective.  Amused me that he did not actually give a stronger hint which forum this was, or perhaps talk about the hard liners who are particularly angry about cyclists.

On 30/04/2025 at 16:23, dougiefreeman said:

Bloody ‘ec Mal, toys out of the pram much?

Might you be a darling and roll back your persistent chastising of posters for not entering into the debate in good faith or engaging in a holy way, or just following your personal forum terms & conditions or whatever it is..

Perhaps, just perhaps, your posts aren’t the benchmark…?

Rather that having a go at me it would be interesting to hear what your views are about cyclists and speed controls.

The OP has a strong view, many of us consider that this is disproportionate and unachievable.  What do you reckon?  Happy to discuss further.

24 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Yes, the very forum I suspect to which he refers to here (good to know he checks it regularly to check no-one has libelled him! ;-))

 

......................

Cyclists have a perception problem and until we look inwardly to address some of the problems that are of our own creating then no progress will ever be made and we will remain one of the msot despised groups. Blaming everyone else is not going to address the root cause of the problem. The majority of the problems are of our own making.

 

I really don't understand why you continue to look at 'cyclists' as a homogeneous group.  The universal things that I can say about cyclists are, it's a healthy and environmental friendly way of traveling, it's good for your mental well-being, it's cheap, it is often quicker than other forms of transport, provides personal mobility, can be sociable and much of the time it's fun.  Cyclists will do it for various reasons.  We are not all the same.

'We' are 'despised' by a noisy minority, and all you do it perpetuate that view rather than resolve any issues. I've posted elsewhere about the division in our society that Reform encourages.  It's felt this way since the Brexit vote and surely our time is better served trying to reverse this.

[Rockets]

Trying to pigeon-hole the dislike of cyclists to a "noisy minority" is myopic. The problem goes far wider than that and I often find that cyclists are disliked/despised by anyone who isn't a cyclist. And that speaks volumes.

And your comment on cyclists as a homogeneous group is again highlighting one of the problems. People don't segmentise different groups of cyclists, if they're on two wheels they are a cyclist. Peter tries to aportion part of the blame onto e-bikes and he has a point but the general public still buckets them as cyclists.

Until such time as many of the most vocal cycle lobbyists start looking inwardly about the problems cyclists are causing then there will never be any progress. Accountability is key and at the moment there is none; it's everyone else's fault.

Edited May 3, 2025 by Rockets

[malumbu]

I've given you numerous benefits of cycling.  Would you not agree with them?  I understand that some people are upset by 'cyclists' - blaming them for measures that discourage driving, perhaps jealous of the freedom that cycling can give, grumpy due to 'cyclists' feeling they have the moral high ground, but you, the right wing press, social media, populist politicians  and the like are contributing to this nonsense that most people hate 'cyclists'.  And it is set to get worse with current politics.  A shame.

I cycle thousands of miles a year.  I'm more likely to get a smile from a motorist that a frown.  Most of the time the interactions are cordial.  I don't know why you and some others need to grossly exaggerate the conflict. 

Edited May 3, 2025 by malumbu

[alice]

It just strikes me as strange that you persist with these posts that make political and other assumptions about cyclists and drivers, very divisive and often insulting. And then you take offence when someone responds.
 

[Penguin68]

There are two things that annoy people about 'cyclists' (and of course they are not a homogeneous group) - (1) that a number very clearly ignore road traffic rules that do apply to them, such as stopping at red lights and pedestrian crossings - and insist that other rules that apply to everyone else using the roads with other vehicles, such as speed limits, should not apply to them and (2) that a number refuse to accept that cyclists are ever in the wrong and instead post themselves as an oppressed minority.

I am additionally annoyed myself with the numbers of cyclists whose road habits (which include not wearing protective clothing, including helmets, not wearing visible clothing or using lights, not signalling turning intentions or observing traffic around them, wearing headphones which limit their understanding of road conditions, reading phones etc.) place themselves at considerable personal risk of injury or worse which will traumatise those involved in such accidents and additionally leave grieving families.

Of course there are bad drivers out there - and of course their errors may have worse consequences for others than cycling errors - but this does not excuse cyclists. Owning and using a cycle isn't, and shouldn't be, a 'get out of jail free card' just because others also offend. 

Of course there are also good and careful cyclists out there, as there are good and careful drivers. Maybe those cyclists who form a vociferous cycling lobby should consider that their 'holier than thou' attitudes may themselves be driving the ire of others.

Oh, and the attitude that cycling makes you morally superior to those who are not cycling absolutely sticks in my craw. It doesn't.

Edited May 3, 2025 by Penguin68

[malumbu]

25 minutes ago, alice said:

It just strikes me as strange that you persist with these posts that make political and other assumptions about cyclists and drivers, very divisive and often insulting. And then you take offence when someone responds.
 

What political assumptions about drivers and cyclists?  What an odd post.

My main point is the sharing of road between different users, which the vast majority do.  I am not the one promoting and overstating conflict.

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

I've given you numerous benefits of cycling.  Would you not agree with them? 

No one is arguing that there are not benefits to cycling, of course there are. But what you are doing here is exactly what every cycle lobbyist does when someone points out that there are significant issues with cycling and some cyclists, which is:

1) say well we dont kill/injure as many people as cars

2) say the problems are not cyclists but e-bike/Lime bike users

3) say everything about cycling is brilliant there are no downsides

4) say we must do nothing that could hinder cycling growth

5) say there is a war being waged on us and we have had nothing to do with it - it's the awful drivers that are the problem!

Look at Cycling UK's response to the perfectly sensible suggestion of a change in the law to police the very worst cyclists:

Duncan Dollimore, head of campaigns at Cycling UK said while the charity supports "a proportionate and evidence-based approach" to updating the law, "it's crucial that any legislative changes do not discourage people from cycling, particularly at a time when promoting active and sustainable travel is vital for our health, environment, and economy".

Read any article by the usual cycling activist media and you can play cycle bingo and tick off each of the points in every article. Never once will they acknowledge any sort of issue.

I would argue that a couple of the biggest hurdles to.cycling growth right now are: 1) cycling's negative perception and 2) bad cycling.

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that's not the case is helping no-one. The cycle lobby needs to change tack quickly before it's too late.

Edited May 3, 2025 by Rockets

[Spartacus]

It still amuses me that the cycling community on here are still basically arguing that it's fine to break the law and that because they aren't nororised speed limits shouldn't apply. 

Madness argument as the law is the law 

six years in the iso-cubes for jumping a red light citizen 

Edited May 3, 2025 by Spartacus

[first mate]

19 hours ago, alice said:

It just strikes me as strange that you persist with these posts that make political and other assumptions about cyclists and drivers, very divisive and often insulting. And then you take offence when someone responds.
 

Malumbu, in response to other posters said:

 "but you, the right wing press, social media, populist politicians  and the like are contributing to this nonsense that most people hate 'cyclists'.  And it is set to get worse with current politics.  A shame."

"'We' are 'despised' by a noisy minority, and all you do it perpetuate that view rather than resolve any issues. I've posted elsewhere about the division in our society that Reform encourages.  It's felt this way since the Brexit vote and surely our time is better served trying to reverse this."

Malumbu, by linking someone that disagrees with you in a list that includes the "right wing press" and at an even earlier point in the thread Reform and Brexit, you are clearly making political inferences...why deny it? 

Edited May 4, 2025 by first mate

[Rockets]

It does seem to be the go-to position for many on this issue; if someone doesn't dare agree with your particular view of the world then accuse them of being a facist...it always seems to get played when people are losing an argument...even Sadiq Khan has pulled from this ludicrous playbook at times....

[ab29]

On 06/12/2023 at 10:17, tedfudge said:

Admin Note: this topic has been split from the "20mph in Southwark" one.

 

It's not just motorists who speed , buses speed bet they dont get fined , I've seen many many cyclists speed believe me , I've been doing 20 over blackfriars bridge and cyclists have been whizzing past in the cycle lanes , if motorists have to abide by the 20mph on roads then so should cyclists , I've been over taken by cyclists when I've been doing 20 loads of times so annoying that they get away with it where as motorists get flashed by cameras or stopped by the police but cyclists can just carry on with no fear of fines or points on licence 

Replying again to the original message - yes, cyclists should have speed restrictions of 20mph - and more. 

There should be an exam before riding a bike and all bikes should have plates so the users can be identified and issued with penalty where necessary.

The behaviour of cyclists in London is beyond appaling: the arrogance and utter and complete disregard to the basic road safety messaures is quite something else 🤔

 

Edited May 7, 2025 by ab29

[tedfudge]

Go on YouTube type in road morons and watch the video , the guy narrating it is pretty funny,  shows motorists doing stupid things and cyclists, the cyclists should be more careful as they have zero protection but they do some of the most dangerous things on the road... 

[malumbu]

39 minutes ago, tedfudge said:

Go on YouTube type in road morons and watch the video , the guy narrating it is pretty funny,  shows motorists doing stupid things and cyclists, the cyclists should be more careful as they have zero protection but they do some of the most dangerous things on the road... 

Do you cycle?

44 minutes ago, ab29 said:

Replying again to the original message - yes, cyclists should have speed restrictions of 20mph - and more. 

There should be an exam before riding a bike and all bikes should have plates so the users can be identified and issued with penalty where necessary.

The behaviour of cyclists in London is beyond appaling: the arrogance and utter and complete disregard to the basic road safety messaures is quite something else 🤔

 

How would this be done?I expect it would be difficult to achieve 

[first mate]

3 hours ago, malumbu said:

Do you cycle?

 

Meaning what? Or is it just casual interest in another poster?

[Spartacus]

I think Mal is propositioning Ted for a secret behind the bike shed liason 😅

Edited May 7, 2025 by Spartacus

[malumbu]

3 hours ago, first mate said:

Meaning what? Or is it just casual interest in another poster?

Question was addressed to Ted.  

[tedfudge]

I used to cycle but don't ride that way anymore , now I'm a road hog . Thanks for the offer though malumbu 

[Spartacus]

Sorry Mal, looks like you are going solo as Ted isn't sharing his fudge with you 😅