London City Airport expansion plan - Public enquiry - Flights all day Saturday/Sunday

[Tony2014]

Hello, I'm Tony and have lived on Kestrel Avenue, Herne Hill for 15 years.

On Monday, I am making a personal statement at the Public Enquiry into London City Airport expansion plans.  The proposal is to increase capacity with more flights and - crucially for the local area - they are proposing that the respite time of 12.30 Saturday (noon-ish) to 12.30 Sunday is removed. This would mean more flights taking off /landing and passing over the local area at heights of around 500-600m (the Heathrow flights go over at around 1100m). From the Explane app, flights at 1100m give noise levels around 65db but at 600m (depending on type of plane) noise levels can be 70db-80db. 

There has not been much publicity about this and I wanted to get some idea of how aware people are about this and how they felt.

If you would like to read more about this, here are the documents submitted so far to the inquiry https://gateleyhamer-pi.com/en-gb/lcal/inquiry-documents/documents-submitted-during-inquiry-copy-2/ 

I only found out about the enquiry this week hence the short notice. I have set up a short 3 question Google survey:

  https://forms.gle/E7DxhxvPbr5BDF4D8

  If you have the time to complete the survey it would be very helpful. (I will not be collecting any email addresses or personal information)

Best wishes,

Tony

[Tony2014]

Hi All,

Thank you to everyone who took time to take part in the poll. The results currently are:

Of 89 responses only 81% were aware of the proposed expansion, 93% are against the expansion, and 93% will be affected by the noise (see attachment).

I've also attached the Hacan  East (not mine) opening statement to the inquiry.  A huge amount of time and work went into creating it. You can follow them for updates at https://www.hacaneast.org.uk/home or https://www.facebook.com/hacaneast .

They also have a crowdfunder to pay for legal and expert witnesses if you would like to help https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/hacan-east-635?utm_term=QKE3WjYYA

inq-02_hacan_east_-_opening_statement_final_5-12-23.pdfsurvey London City Airport Expansion Plans - Google Forms.pdf

Best wishes,

Tony

[first mate]

Tony, thanks so much for addressing this. I for one was completely unaware. Sounds like it could be awful, especially as the planes will be much lower than at Heathrow. So this must mean quite an increase of plane use and number of planes? 
 

How, I wonder, might this affect air pollution locally?

[CPR Dave]

I don't think it will make any noticeable difference here at all. 70% of the time they have to take off and land east to west because of the prevailing wind conditions. 

That means that there would only be 15 Saturdays a year when these extra 7 hours of flights will be anywhere near us. 

Edited January 29, 2024 by CPR Dave

[malumbu]

Planes make no noticeable difference to our local air quality.  Main issue is at airports through runway operations and surface access ie motor vehicles driving to the airport.  You could argue that there should be restrictions on air traffic due to climate change, that carbon emissions should be included in national and international targets and agreements, and that passengers should be charged for the environmental damage.  But governments are too chicken to do that, and most of us can't kick the habit of flying, yes even me 😒

Edited January 30, 2024 by malumbu

[Tony2014]

Good news (mostly).

The Government has just announced that it has rejected a key part of London City Airport’s to expand. It has refused permission for planes to operate on Saturday afternoons , thus preserving the 24 hr weekend break from the planes.

It has granted the airport permission to operate more planes during the first half hour of operation from 6.30am till 7am and to increase annual passenger numbers from 6.5 million to 9 million. Full report here (I haven't read it all yet)

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Narrowly, that's good news.

More broadly, expanding access to LCY is nuts - much more carbon emitted globally and much more noise and air pollution locally.

25% of all flights out of LCY are to Amsterdam and Edinburgh, both of which are perfectly well served by train from London, and where there is more capacity to put on additional services. The government could have followed the French model of prohibiting air corridors where decent train services exist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/17/london-city-airport-journeys-take-under-six-hours-train-data

[Tony2014]

@Dogkennelhillbilly I agree. And it's only a matter of time before they try again. A 29% increase in passengers is not a good thing.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

In any case there is already tons of capacity at SEN, which is 55 minutes by rail from Liverpool St and has much less congested airspace. LCY is 30 minutes from Liverpool St and 24 mins from Canary Wharf.

We're going to expose hundreds of thousands of Londoners to more air and noise pollution so a handful of City flyers can save 20 mins on their short haul flights? None of it makes sense.

[the_hermit]

I'm not keen on expanding LCY but the time saving vs Stansted, even if you work by Liverpool St, is way more than 20 minutes.

[jazzer]

Answer. Just close your windows 

[malumbu]

I like LCY for its size and convenience but not used it many times and fully appreciate the environmental issues associated with this and all air travel.  Governments, perhaps starting with ours need to start taxing aviation carbon emissions, and by whatever means rail travel should be the cheaper option for many locations in Europe rather than being several times the cheapest flights.

[andynic]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

Answer. Just close your windows 

And stick your fingers in your ears, while closing your eyes?

[Spartacus]

4 hours ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

In any case there is already tons of capacity at SEN, which is 55 minutes by rail from Liverpool St and has much less congested airspace. LCY is 30 minutes from Liverpool St and 24 mins from Canary Wharf.

Whilst your statement concerning travel time is correct, there is also a factor of check in times to consider. 

City Airport is fairly quick from getting a ticket to standing at departure gate as security has a small flow through it, so you can save 30 plus minutes compared to traveling fron Stanstead or other London airports.  Doesn't sound much but for busy business people it can make a difference on choosing which airport to fly from. 

I guess the real issue here is should we all reduce our travel for holidays, visiting family and work resulting in airport capacity reducing not increasing. Maybe less trips to south of France or Benidorm should be on the cards and make more use of the great British countryside for holidays 😀 

Edited August 20, 2024 by Spartacus

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

4 hours ago, the_hermit said:

I'm not keen on expanding LCY but the time saving vs Stansted, even if you work by Liverpool St, is way more than 20 minutes.

SEN is Southend, not Stansted.

Only a handful of slots per day are taken at the moment at SEN. Air traffic doesn't need to fly over central London. There's a dedicated train station with fast trains from London. It's about 7 minutes between getting off the train and walking through security. They have the most up to date security scanners so no liquids ban etc.

There's no reason why the government needs to authorise more slots at LCY except to make more money for LCY's Kuwaiti and pension fund owners.

1 hour ago, andynic said:

And stick your fingers in your ears, while closing your eyes?

Don't forget holding your breath...