Consulration to explore options for restricting a local authority’s ability to generate surpluses from traffic contraventions

[Spartacus]

Open call for evidence
Restricting the generation of surplus funds from traffic contraventions

https://www.gov.uk/government/calls-for-evidence/restricting-the-generation-of-surplus-funds-from-traffic-contraventions

Open till May 25th. 

Please review and comment if this interests you 

Edited May 19 by Spartacus

[malumbu]

My word the Tories are desperate.  Local roads, decision for local authorities.  If you don't like you council, then vote them out.  

Edited May 19 by malumbu

[Spartacus]

Ahhhh, @malumbu yet again you try and twist the truth. you muat be despetate 🤣

The consultation is about local authorities not keeping excess profits from fines, it is NOT about taking control of local roads away from them.

4/10 must try harder 

[CPR Dave]

Filed it out. Southwark are the worst capitalists going when it comes to screwing profits out of motorists.

[ArchieCarlos]

So the central idea proposed is:

Quote

Should government remove any suggestion there is a “profit motive” for local councils – such as by requiring any surpluses that councils might generate from new charges to be repaid to His Majesty’s Treasury – after the costs of enforcement have been repaid? 

Do we really believe that once the Treasury collects money from fines, they will be so much more altruistic than the council?

They are not. The central government grants to councils have been reduced by 40% in real terms between 2009/10 and 2019/20, from £46.5bn to £28bn in 2023/24 prices. Councils are trying to compensate through various means, including squeezing drivers. Meanwhich councils are still on the hook for elderly care, road maintenance, etc. 

Once the Treasury gets a sniff of traffic contravention money, it will be like crack cocaine: they will want more and more of it and demand councils install more traffic cameras to feed them more of that sweet contravention money. This is what is happening in France for example where central government gets the speed camera money and pushes local authority to install more and more of them.. 

The way I see it: not only will it fail to reduce the number of fines levied on the people of Southwark, but the money generated will be taken out of the local community and we will have even less say about the whole thing than we do now. 

[Spartacus]

Best to fill in the consultation and make that point directly is my advice AC 

[malumbu]

15 hours ago, ArchieCarlos said:

So the central idea proposed is:

Do we really believe that once the Treasury collects money from fines, they will be so much more altruistic than the council?

They are not. The central government grants to councils have been reduced by 40% in real terms between 2009/10 and 2019/20, from £46.5bn to £28bn in 2023/24 prices. Councils are trying to compensate through various means, including squeezing drivers. Meanwhich councils are still on the hook for elderly care, road maintenance, etc. 

Once the Treasury gets a sniff of traffic contravention money, it will be like crack cocaine: they will want more and more of it and demand councils install more traffic cameras to feed them more of that sweet contravention money. This is what is happening in France for example where central government gets the speed camera money and pushes local authority to install more and more of them.. 

The way I see it: not only will it fail to reduce the number of fines levied on the people of Southwark, but the money generated will be taken out of the local community and we will have even less say about the whole thing than we do now. 

Local authorities are not responsible for speed cameras/enforcement, that is the police, and money goes to central government.  https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/speed/speed-enforcement

Can't find any year by year stats on convictions, around a million people get fixed penalty notices, a million speed awareness courses.  Heck that is a number of people caught speeding.  Don't believe that there is any political push to increase speed limit enforcement.  But as with contravening local authority restrictions, if you risk getting a fine.

Consultation is now dead due to the General Election. 

Edited May 25 by malumbu

[Penguin68]

10 hours ago, malumbu said:

Can't find any year by year stats on convictions, around a million people get fixed penalty notices, a million speed awareness courses.  Heck that is a number of people caught speeding. 

Yes, but anecdotally that's a lot of people caught speeding at 21-25 mph (now) in built-up areas, many on roads which are not truly residential - indeed many classed as A roads. Speed awareness courses are only offered to those 'marginally' speeding - true 'boy racers' aren't offered speed courses (neither are those caught more than once at 'marginal' speeds). The old '10% leeway' now seems abandoned in many areas, I have been told of fines  and points being awarded for 21mph!

[malumbu]

10% leeway is an urban myth, stems from the time when speedos were generally several percent out.  I know so many people who have done speed awareness courses, some even managing to get away with it twice.  There is a general bravado - oh this is pointless, then some admit how it did change their attitude.  I've not heard of anyone being fined for 21mph.  20mph will just be normal in years to come.  Good.   And roll on the time when the younger generation will only learn to drive as a new skill, and for occasional use, as with a swipe they will organise their personal mobility.

Sadly for most currently on the road, the only training they will go on after passing their test, is a speed awareness course.  Pass your test at 17, drive till 97, 80 years without training?  Most drivers would fail if we were suddenly asked to take their test now.

[Spartacus]

As a reminder, this consultation closes tonight at 11.59 so if you have comments, positive or negative, get them in. 

[Glemham]

As GE has been called doesn’t all government business such as this consultation fall?

[Rockets]

Any pragmatism or leeway is lost when anything gets turned into a revenue opportunity for councils. The £ dictates policy and implementation….

[malumbu]

Yes it's pointless filling it in.  In deed a pointless exercise in any case, like consulting whether people would like more pay.  Although I did enjoy filling it in pre GE announcement.