West Dulwich LTN Action Group - needs your support

[Rockets]

You can add a "consultation is not a referendum" to the growing lexicon of BS phrases spouted by those who know there is something to hide.. 

It joins such classics as:

A small vocal minority 

You must be a right- wing pertrolhead 

There is majority support for these measures

It was five years ago..move on

Nothing can hinder cycle growth

The council said it is so, so it is so

[malumbu]

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head, point six is very appropriate, time to move on (half a decade).  

 

Edited June 13 by malumbu

[Rockets]

Ha ha...thanks for validating my point Mal....good grief...

[first mate]

On 13/06/2025 at 09:42, Penguin68 said:

If the 'silent majority' determine not to engage in civic discussion, pointless as it often seems when dealing with councils deaf to opposition, then it is impossible to determine what their views are. Their only commonality is that they are silent. To suggest that if, say, 40% of an eligible population 'votes' and of those 60% vote one way, then the others who have not voted but are silent are in fact of the opposite view is simply statistically mad. 

Exactly. Not only that, it only takes a tiny number of residents to ignite a full-blown consultation for CPZ yet if the result is a majority against, as has been the case almost every time, those views are ignored.

In the consultation results report for Melbourne Grove South (which has subsequently 'disappeared' online) it said that a majority had not answered the question on what times of the day they would like CPZ controls to operate, so they went with the minority who did answer. My guess is people did not answer the question about times because they knew it was a trip trap question, with no option to say we don't want any time, because we do not want a CPZ at all. Any answer giving a time would be misinterpreted as a 'vote' in favour. 

 

[Rockets]

One wonders as well how many of the residents who ignite the consultations have close ties to either the council or the active travel lobby. 

[Penguin68]

57 minutes ago, Rockets said:

or the active travel lobby

... Or cyclists. I do not believe 'the active travel lobby' are particularly made up of proselytising walkers, the mode of active travel most common, it would appear, in Dulwich. 

[ab29]

On 10/06/2025 at 21:42, first mate said:

Yes, but Cllr McAsh is the person in charge of Streets for People and he is very clear that he wants to rid the borough of as many cars as possible and make car journeys as slow and tortuous as possible. The mechanisms available to him to achieve his 'vision' are LTNs, double yellow lines, CPZ and - perhaps this is too far-fetched, allowing multiple street and roadworks to all happen at once. Is it likely that the man currently set to be Council Leader will have overseen botched consultations opening the door for legal challenges? Hmm.

As for Cllr Rose, she is now in charge of damaging parks.

This is a link about West Dulwich but how  about having another referendum on so-called ltn in East Dulwich? To resolve the issue once and for all.

It will cost money, obviously but since the council already wasted funds on two referendums and ignored the outcome - majority of ED residents were against ltn - and then the council wasted millions on never-ending-re/design of Dulwich Village junction then I assume this new referendum cost would be drop in an ocean for the said council 🙂

[malumbu]

I assume you are posting in jest.  It's legal and there is no case through the courts to get rid of it.  It's also been five years so perhaps time to move onto other battles.  Should that is how you spend your time.

[ab29]

No,  I want to know why my money has been wasted on TWO referendums - paper, emails etc - and yet the outcome has been ignored: the residents were saying big "no" to ltn.

And yet here I am, having the southwark council arrogant so-and-so lecturing me.

"It's alsobeen five years so perhaps time to move onto other battles."

Mmm no - having 100 cars on my road per day thanks to ltn as opposed to 10 csrs before ltn - not cool at all!

Regardless of all the buts and the ifs: am sure the malumbus of this world would welcome the ltn referendum -  after all, we all want it to be a fair game 🙂

Edited June 14 by ab29

[malumbu]

They were consultations not referendums. Our political system does not work by going out to the vote on everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

Here's a link to referendums, fairly rare on a local level across the whole of the UK.  The Edinburgh one on a congestion charge shows that most will vote on self interest rather than the wider picture.  Turkeys would similarly not vote for Xmas as they are not thinking about the wider joy that it would bring. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

[ab29]

Excellent - let's have another consultation!

Two of which I have already paid for - so maybe the third one will convince the arrogant and living in the bubble southwark council that residents of East Dulwich do not want the ltn. 

If the council and the ltn fans are of the opposite opinion what are you afraid of?

[Guest]

On 13/06/2025 at 14:45, Earl Aelfheah said:

Not going over this again. You are obsessed. It was half a decade ago - drive round, it's a 2 minute diversion.

Is there a single change that the council or tfl have implemented that you haven't objected to in say the last 10 or 15 years? 

It is much longer than a 2 minute diversion, and in any case all those 2 minutes for each vehicle add up to even greater pollution.

[malumbu]

So don't drive if pollution concerns you.  The hypocrisy of many who give pollution as an issue to justify their argument, but are still happy to contribute through how, what, where, when and if they drive is something else.  I'm on a train if anyone id interested. 

[Rockets]

@malumbu maybe don't throw in road closures that create increased congestion...there's always that too isn't there?

I am not on a train.....

[ab29]

33 minutes ago, Rockets said:

@malumbu maybe don't throw in road closures that create increased congestion...there's always that too isn't there?

I am not on a train.....

Agree - said as somone who does not drive or own the car. Malumbu on the other hand might be transferring the furniture to his France villa as we speak 🙂

[Spartacus]

5 hours ago, malumbu said:

 It's also been five years so perhaps time to move onto other battles.  Should that is how you spend your time.

Love to see you post something simular in a brexit debate thread. 

You would be cut to ribbons with defeatist talk like that, and as such its disrespectful to those who still feel aggrieved by the underhand way the council dismissed residents views when discussing LTNs 

[malumbu]

You've lost me.  Brexit is a separate issue noting that some of the nastier petrol heads I've met are Reform, voted Brexit and just generally xenophobic.  

1 hour ago, ab29 said:

Agree - said as somone who does not drive or own the car. Malumbu on the other hand might be transferring the furniture to his France villa as we speak 🙂

Please avoid the jibes.

However not sure why you are so anti measures to discourage car use and encourage active travel. I would have thought you'd be supporting smarter use of cars 

You will be pleased to hear that my next trip to the near continent is by bike and ferry.  We will be cheating a little with a short and slightly longer train journey.  PM me for our itinerary if you wish to join us watching the Tour.

 

[Spartacus]

Sorry Mal 

Let me explain it slowly to you.

If you posted a comment similarly in the Brexit thread, saying "remainers get over it, its been 9 years" I am sure they would rip your head off, so why disrespect people on here by posting "its been 5 years, get over it" ? 

If you can't see the comparison then I'm sure specsavers can help 

[malumbu]

Some local road scheme that annoys a few noisy people Vs a decision that has harmed our economy and the future of  many.  No comparison.  Brexit, whatever that was supposed to mean, happened. Some common sense in our relationship with our near neighbours and closest trading parties has fortunately returned.

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 13/06/2025 at 14:45, Earl Aelfheah said:

Is there a single change that the council or tfl have implemented that you haven't objected to in say the last 10 or 15 years?

@Rockets you dodged the question. If one opposes every change, regardless of what it is, do you think it could just amount to  nimbyism?

Edited June 15 by Earl Aelfheah

[Spartacus]

8 hours ago, malumbu said:

Some local road scheme that annoys a few noisy people Vs a decision that has harmed our economy and the future of  many.  No comparison.  Brexit, whatever that was supposed to mean, happened. Some common sense in our relationship with our near neighbours and closest trading parties has fortunately returned.

 

Let's hope the council sees the same level of common sense and properly engages with the community 😅

[Earl Aelfheah]

13 hours ago, Kathleen Olander said:

It is much longer than a 2 minute diversion

Is it? Google maps estimates the time to drive from the junction of townley road and calton avenue, to the junction of where Dulwich village passes the other end of calton avenue, is 3 minutes. In total.

So how long do you believe it took before the changes? You think it took less than 1 minute?

I think people have lost all perspective.

Edited June 15 by Earl Aelfheah

[Spartacus]

Google maps doesn't account for current traffic, local conditions and other impacts on driving Earl. 

[Rockets]

59 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

@Rockets you dodged the question. If one opposes every change, regardless of what it is, do you think it could just amount to  nimbyism?

@Earl Aelfheah of course it is. You also dodged your question, are you still convinced after the 55% support nonsense you regurgitated that the majority supported the Dulwich LTN? Or have you changed your opinion when presented with actual fact rather than weak council spin? Is the Sydenham Hill consultation the only one left you can claim had "majority" support? Not sure how that gives the council a mandate for the ones in Dulwich do you?

[Earl Aelfheah]

2 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Google maps doesn't account for current traffic, local conditions and other impacts on driving Earl. 

Waze says exactly the same

…in fact, if you leave now, Waze says it will take 2 minutes. In total.

How long do people think it took previously?