Pavement widening outside M&S nr East Dulwich station...

[march46]

It’s very telling that the posters who are against LTNs and cycling infrastructure are also anti pedestrian improvements. 

[alice]

Creating a false division doesn’t help, looking at spending priorities might

Edited May 25 by alice
Punctuation

[Earl Aelfheah]

34 minutes ago, march46 said:

It’s very telling that the posters who are against LTNs and cycling infrastructure are also anti pedestrian improvements. 

There are some people who just predictably and consistently oppose any change.

[alice]

It’s the predictability and repetitiveness of the posters. Does anyone actually change their mind on this forum?

[Rockets]

@march46 I think you will find there is a long list of evidence that many of those voicing their concerns about LTNs and cycling infrastructure have been saying that too little has been done for pedestrians with too much focused on cycling. I am not sure how you can conclude that people asking if we need three crossings in 100 yards are anti-pedestrian.

Just out of interest, do you think there should be a pedestrian crossing on the Dulwich Village cycle track - maybe they can take one from the Melbourne Grove?

[march46]

It’s hardly pro-pedestrian to be questioning the need for additional pedestrian crossings, especially given the high footfall of all 3 locations.

[Earl Aelfheah]

7 minutes ago, Rockets said:

 I think you will find there is a long list of evidence that many of those voicing their concerns about LTNs and cycling infrastructure have been saying that too little has been done for pedestrians

Yes, whilst also opposing every single intervention to actually improve pedestrian spaces, add pedestrian crossing etc.

[Angelina]

maybe in the future, there will be so much traffic flowing freely that we will be so glad we have three separate crossing points.

 

 

 

 

[pebs]

Lol 

[ab29]

On 13/05/2025 at 23:30, Sue said:

How do you connect pedestrian space being increased near the station with no longer caring about nature? 

Have I missed something here?

Yes you have - there was a garden centre in that place before, so much more nature friendly. 

And then m&s came  - this was a very bad decision as there is not enough space for big delivery lorries coming daily. And Sainsbury's is just a stone's away.

What is the point of widening pavements in front of m&s if cars are being parked on that widened pavement all the time? 

What are the benefits for pedestrians?

What are the benefits for nature?

Edited May 15 by ab29

[Rockets]

Has the pavement been widened there so M&S have somewhere to make deliveries to the store?

[first mate]

Not sure. Perhaps it is part of a new trend towards making the delineation between pedestrian and space for other usage much more ambiguous. Outside M&S, is is footpath, cycle scooter storage or a drop off/loading zone...perhaps all three, on a kinda first come first served basis.

Over at Dulwich Sq, is it for pedestrians, for cyclists, or to increase covers for the local cafes? 

Edited May 16 by first mate

[Sue]

On 15/05/2025 at 20:57, ab29 said:

Yes you have - there was a garden centre in that place before, so much more nature friendly. 

And then m&s came  - this was a very bad decision as there is not enough space for big delivery lorries coming daily. And Sainsbury's is just a stone's away.

What is the point of widening pavements in front of m&s if cars are being parked on that widened pavement all the time? 

What are the benefits for pedestrians?

What are the benefits for nature?

I think you are confusing quite a few issues here.

The garden centre wasn't particularly nature friendly. Much of it was indoors, stuff like plant food and tools. And the relatively small outdoor space didn't sell particularly bee friendly (for example) plants.

Sainsbury's is not a stone's throw away from M&S. It is quite a long walk from the station, much of it uphill, and not at all convenient for people wanting to buy food before or after their train journey.

It does however have  a quite large nature friendly park in front of it, certainly more nature friendly than the garden centre was.

Surely the convenient location of that M&S for many people outweighs the occasional inconvenience of a few large delivery lorries?

The issue of cars being parked on the widened pavement has been discussed elsewhere. There certainly needs to be something done to prevent the cars parking, but that's a separate issue to the increased benefits to pedestrians of having more space.

[LurkyMcLurker]

16 hours ago, first mate said:

Outside M&S, is is footpath, cycle scooter storage or a drop off/loading zone...perhaps all three, on a kinda first come first served basis.

I noticed that there's a pole right next to the loading/unloading area. It doesn't serve any purpose right now. It's too tall for a typical bollard (and there's only one) and too short to be used as a street light. I imagine it's going to be a sign at some point.

Not sure why it wouldn't just be finished since the works have moved on from directly outside the M&S, but what do I know.

[first mate]

Well they still have to plant up the rain drains, so perhaps the notice will be done at the same time.

I just hope the garden drains do not become large 'bins'. The seating nearby was strewn with and surrounded by various discarded food takeout packaging, when I passed the other day.

[Cancerian]

On 15/05/2025 at 21:29, Rockets said:

Has the pavement been widened there so M&S have somewhere to make deliveries to the store?

Yes I think it has. I drove by this afternoon and there was a very large M&S  delivery lorry parked right outside making deliveries. Traffic was backed up because of the widening  of the road just before there which was closed off anyway because of the LTNs that were brought in a few years ago. Also noticed some parking spaces have been taken away because of  road widening outside near the cherry tree pub place? Why?  All very unnecessary but that’s Southwark Labour’s plan to kill off car drivers.

[ab29]

On 16/05/2025 at 21:20, Sue said:

I think you are confusing quite a few issues here.

The garden centre wasn't particularly nature friendly. Much of it was indoors, stuff like plant food and tools. And the relatively small outdoor space didn't sell particularly bee friendly (for example) plants.

Sainsbury's is not a stone's throw away from M&S. It is quite a long walk from the station, much of it uphill, and not at all convenient for people wanting to buy food before or after their train journey.

It does however have  a quite large nature friendly park in front of it, certainly more nature friendly than the garden centre was.

Surely the convenient location of that M&S for many people outweighs the occasional inconvenience of a few large delivery lorries?

The issue of cars being parked on the widened pavement has been discussed elsewhere. There certainly needs to be something done to prevent the cars parking, but that's a separate issue to the increased benefits to pedestrians of having more space.

"The issue of cars being parked on the widenedpavement has been discussed elsewhere" - where ?

[march46]

For everyone who has looked at the plans, you’ll already know that the extended pavement outside M&S incorporates a bookable loading bay which has the benefit of not being bookable during peak hours - providing significantly more space and improved accessibility for the heavy footfall there is close to the station. 
 

Enforcement will obviously be key, as evidence to date suggests many drivers ignore the loading bay rules there and use it instead as short-term free parking.

6 hours ago, Cancerian said:

Also noticed some parking spaces have been taken away because of  road widening outside near the cherry tree pub place? Why?  All very unnecessary but that’s Southwark Labour’s plan to kill off car drivers.

If you look at the plans you’ll see there is a new pedestrian crossing being installed.

[ab29]

On 18/05/2025 at 06:57, march46 said:

For everyone who has looked at the plans, you’ll already know that the extended pavement outside M&S incorporates a bookable loading bay which has the benefit of not being bookable during peak hours - providing significantly more space and improved accessibility for the heavy footfall there is close to the station. 
 

Enforcement will obviously be key, as evidence to date suggests many drivers ignore the loading bay rules there and use it instead as short-term free parking.

If you look at the plans you’ll see there is a new pedestrian crossing being installed.

"improvedaccessibility for the heavy footfall there is close to thestation" - eh? What does this even mean?

[malumbu]

Footfall is the term used for the number of people entering a shop or shopping area in a given time.  I think that it is a common term in the retail trade.

Accessibility is the ability for a person to access a facility, in this case shop/s

Station is part of the train network, where trains stop and passengers get on and off.  Many people use trains for leisure, shopping and commuting, so if a shop is near the station they are in a good position for this passing trade.

 

[Sue]

8 hours ago, ab29 said:

"improvedaccessibility for the heavy footfall there is close to thestation" - eh? What does this even mean?

It's quite obvious what it means!

Though it's less obvious when you run the original words together in your haste to criticise.

[LurkyMcLurker]

On 18/05/2025 at 00:10, Cancerian said:

All very unnecessary but that’s Southwark Labour’s plan to kill off car drivers.

I don't think Southwark is trying to kill off car drivers. If they were, it'd be a whole lot easier to just shoot them in the head. Widening pavement seems way less effective.

[malumbu]

I disagree.  Drivers are so distracted looking for signage eg LTNs, school streets, that they will probably collide with the widened pavement, the car will flip and burst into flames like a Hollywood blockbuster.  

Or maybe not. 

[Moovart]

12 minutes ago, malumbu said:

I disagree.  Drivers are so distracted looking for signage eg LTNs, school streets, that they will probably collide with the widened pavement, the car will flip and burst into flames like a Hollywood blockbuster.  

Or maybe not. 

This no joke Malumbu!

I was traveling recently and came to a crossroads that had 27 various signs divided between the four corners.  That took a while to read 🤣.

Fortunately it wasn't at a junction near us.

[malumbu]

Love to see some photos of the 27 signs.  Which roads I will have to check them out