Car dilemma - do you manage without one?

[Sue]

I scarcely use my ancient (1998!) non ULEZ compliant car any more, which I have had for nearly 20 years.

It is presently  used mainly to take bulky  things up to my allotment or the tip, occasional weekends away,  festivals or  camping trips, and sometimes giving people lifts to and from stations.

But that's mainly because I have to pay the ULEZ charge every time I use it.

It has been very reliable, is  in good nick and passes its MOT every year.

Now, after months without use apart from opening the door to put things into the car, a new battery bought last September is dead and won't charge 😭

I realise this is my own stupid fault for not realising that you shouldn't let a battery completely discharge, and I should have gone for a drive or charged the battery before.

I have hung onto the car because I am over the age limit for car share  club type things and car hire companies (though my daughter has just found a website with car hire schemes for ancient people).

Also I am not used to driving more modern cars!

I looked into getting a (second hand)  replacement when ULEZ came in, and it just all seemed like too much hassle.

Now I don't know whether it's worth shelling out for yet another new battery (DUH) . The one I got is still  under guarantee, but only for "manufacturing faults" and I imagine this won't apply in this case.

But if I don't I will have to somehow dispose of the car, which also needs at least one tyre inflating, for which I need a working battery 😭

If you don't have a car, how do you manage, especially if like me you are very old (but reasonably mobile, touch wood!) ? 

And/or do you have any advice on whether I should keep the car, or if not what to do with it? 

Edited May 15 by Sue

[Angelina]

I'd say hold on to it in case you need it. There may be a time when it helps you get around more easily.

You'd know if that's easily done, if you've got somewhere to park it etc 

 

[PeckhamNicola]

I would sell it and probably buy another - despite not knowing how reliable the next car would be. This is because if I knew I had to pay the ULEZ that would definitely stop me from using it most of the time, as it has done you. Or sell it and not buy another car but pay for a taxi as and when needed. This would still feel painful to me, so I'd need to keep thinking how much I'd saved by not paying tax, insurance, MOT, repairs etc and see how many taxi fares that covered. 

[malumbu]

Car club will be a better bet if you are an occasional user and hiring if you need to go further.  

I think once you take the plunge then you wonder why you didn't do it before 

Just checked minimum age 25 for zip car, no upper age limit 

[firth]

 

In 6 months you could be able to buy a brand new one for £10,000 or eat humble pie buy a new battery and enjoy some freedom

[Sue]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

Car club will be a better bet if you are an occasional user and hiring if you need to go further.  

I think once you take the plunge then you wonder why you didn't do it before 

Just checked minimum age 25 for zip car, no upper age limit 

Really? I'm sure when I checked previously there was an upper age limit for zip car! I will look again!

1 hour ago, firth said:

 

In 6 months you could be able to buy a brand new one for £10,000 or eat humble pie buy a new battery and enjoy some freedom

I have no wish to spend ten grand on a new car!

But yes I might consider the new battery - lesson learned!

2 hours ago, PeckhamNicola said:

I would sell it and probably buy another - despite not knowing how reliable the next car would be. This is because if I knew I had to pay the ULEZ that would definitely stop me from using it most of the time, as it has done you. Or sell it and not buy another car but pay for a taxi as and when needed. This would still feel painful to me, so I'd need to keep thinking how much I'd saved by not paying tax, insurance, MOT, repairs etc and see how many taxi fares that covered. 

I doubt I could sell the car, it's worth very little.

And I probably wouldn't use another one much more than I use this one, tbh. 

I'm leaning towards keeping it at the moment!

[Sally Eva]

you could investigate selling it. No Ulez outside London.

Buses and trains? If you are that old you must have a Freedom Pass

[marctt]

Hi, we're in a similar position with our old people carrier and did a look back at our usage and then looked at the costs for car clubs, taxis and car hire costs if we got rid of it.

In our case the away trips to family, especially during school holidays, makes it cheaper to keep ours and pay ULEZ (the away trips is the big cost for hiring). We rarely use it for local trips and plan usage to aim for multiple purpose trips. We also share with our neighbours such as moving large items with our people carrier and share the ulez cost.

Generally for low use alone it will not make financial sense to buy a newer car.

Also, if you have a petrol car check its NOx output amount for ULEZ compliance as TFL wrongly categorised many older cars. Did this for neighbours 2001 car and it's ULEZ compliant when TFL originally said it was not (now fixed) and having the same issue with a 1997 petrol car.

[Cyclemonkey]

I've never owned a car in the 25 years I've lived in London.  I would regard it as  a hopeless waste of money 

I walk, get public transport and taxis for the rare occasions when public transport won't cut it.

Anything large that needs to be transporting to or away from my property - well pretty much all shops deliver and for anything  else  there is always someone who willing do it for a small fee.

If I need a car to go somewhere outside of London (you would be surprised at how little this issue occurs) then hire cars exist.

Edited May 16 by Cyclemonkey

[Sue]

28 minutes ago, Sally Eva said:

you could investigate selling it. No Ulez outside London.

Buses and trains? If you are that old you must have a Freedom Pass

I thought that re ULEZ, but actually other places do have similar schemes, eg Bristol.

I got caught by this a couple of years ago when Google maps sent me through Bristol en route to somewhere else. Though I did manage to get the fine waived.

And other places are apparently going to have them, eg Oxford. As I found when I was considering selling the car in Oxford.

Which I think is a very good thing, but not helpful if your car isn't compliant 

Also in order to sell it I would presumably have to get it into working order, so I'd have to buy a new battery anyway.

I use mostly buses and trains already, for travelling both within and outside London. 

That's why I rarely use the car except for transporting bulky/heavy items, or going to places which aren't easy to reach via public transport, or giving people a lift who are not very mobile.

The problem with hiring a car to go to a festival, for example,  is that I'd be paying for it to sit in a field for several days. And it would be impossible, or at least very difficult,  to transport a tent and camping equipment there by public transport.

Not that I've been to any festivals lately.

I think I'm talking myself into keeping the car. I did do sums when ULEZ came in.

I've had a Freedom Pass for over fifteen years, gulp 😂

13 minutes ago, Cyclemonkey said:

I've never owned a car in the 25 years I've lived in London.  I would regard it as  a hopeless waste of money 

I walk, get public transport and taxis for the rare occasions when public transport won't cut it.

Anything large that needs to be transporting to or away from my property - well pretty much all shops deliver and for anything  else  there is always someone who willing do it for a small fee.

If I need a car to go somewhere outside of London (you would be surprised at how little this issue occurs) then hire cars exist.

This is all true, but you have to factor in my age, convenience, and the waste of money in hiring a car if you aren't actually going to use it once you've got to your destination until you need to drive home.

If there was a system like zip cars where you could drive somewhere and leave the car for someone else to use, then pick up another car just to drive back, that would be different.

And hire charges are greater for older drivers (even though apparently the stats say we are safer) even assuming you can find a company which will hire you a car.

44 minutes ago, marctt said:

Hi, we're in a similar position with our old people carrier and did a look back at our usage and then looked at the costs for car clubs, taxis and car hire costs if we got rid of it.

In our case the away trips to family, especially during school holidays, makes it cheaper to keep ours and pay ULEZ (the away trips is the big cost for hiring). We rarely use it for local trips and plan usage to aim for multiple purpose trips. We also share with our neighbours such as moving large items with our people carrier and share the ulez cost.

Generally for low use alone it will not make financial sense to buy a newer car.

Also, if you have a petrol car check its NOx output amount for ULEZ compliance as TFL wrongly categorised many older cars. Did this for neighbours 2001 car and it's ULEZ compliant when TFL originally said it was not (now fixed) and having the same issue with a 1997 petrol car.

Thank you, that's useful.

I  keep meaning to  check for ULEZ compliance. A mechanic once told me I should do this, because his son had a similar issue and then found his car was actually compliant, and I never got round to it.

It's a Micra so I probably need to contact Nissan (or could a garage check NOx output? Is this part of the MOT?)

[malumbu]

Easy to check if your car for ULEZ

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/

Zip car does a flexible point to point option 

I usually cycle from a local station when going to festivals, I can get everything on my bike and stunned how much stuff some people take.  I've stewarded at festivals in recent year. There are usually shuttles for those going on foot, many for example still get the train to Glastonbury.

[Cyclemonkey]

Yep a lot of festivals also put people in  touch with others for car sharing options.  There are generally people happy to take an extra passenger or two for help with the petrol money. 

[malumbu]

At least one - Shambala - does reduced price if you use the coach service which goes from major cities

Glastonbury used to have a deal through National Express but that was before it went viral.  You can still get combined coach and entry but not sure if there is any discount,

[Earl Aelfheah]

If you think about the amount you spend on keeping and using a car and how infrequently you use it, you might be better just getting the occasional Uber.

We often underestimate the cost of owning a car, as opposed to using a cab. There is actually a name for it in Psychology ('the taxi meter effect').

It's likely you're spending at least £1000 - £1,500 a year on keeping a car (£500 on insurance, £200 on MOT and service / repairs, £180 on VED, Then the ULEZ fee each time you use it, plus fuel, plus depreciation... maybe minimal in this case). If you put that in a separate 'pot' and used it to cover the occasional Uber, you may find your needs more than covered. 

Edited May 16 by Earl Aelfheah
added link

[Sue]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

Easy to check if your car for ULEZ

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/

Zip car does a flexible point to point option 

I usually cycle from a local station when going to festivals, I can get everything on my bike and stunned how much stuff some people take.  I've stewarded at festivals in recent year. There are usually shuttles for those going on foot, many for example still get the train to Glastonbury.

That ULEZ check is not necessarily accurate, as someone pointed out above. I did it ages ago.

I don't cycle. I got a bike, had a space in a bike shelter (in fact requested one on our road), had a disastrous lesson from someone who appeared to think I was about nine years old, fell off and gave up.

A refugee now has my bike and someone else has my space in the shelter thing.

Our tent is too big to easily take on public transport, let alone all the other stuff. If you travel light, good for you, but my backpacking days are long gone, as are my days of happily sleeping in a tent I can't stand up in!

I didn't know about this zip car point to point option. Is that to anywhere in the UK?

5 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

If you think about the amount you spend on keeping and using a car and how infrequently you use it, you might be better just getting the occasional Uber.

We often underestimate the cost of owning a car, as opposed to using a cab. There is actually a name for it in Psychology ('the taxi meter effect').

It's likely you're spending at least £1000 - £1,500 a year on keeping a car (£500 on insurance, £200 on MOT and service / repairs, £180 on VED, Then the ULEZ fee each time you use it, plus fuel, plus depreciation... maybe minimal in this case). If you put that in a separate 'pot' and used it to cover the occasional Uber, you may find your needs more than covered. 

Thanks but I did all the sums when I decided to keep the car, and the convenience for me outweighed the obviously considerable annual  cost.

I don't think an Uber driver would be very happy to convey things like bags of smelly compost to my allotment 🤣

Which I can take on the bus but it's somewhat embarrassing 🤣

Edited May 16 by Sue

[Earl Aelfheah]

6 minutes ago, Sue said:

I don't think an Uber driver would be very happy to convey things like bags of smelly compost to my allotment 🤣

🤣 Yes, I can't imagine they'd thank you for that.

Sounds like keeping the car is probably the right thing for you.

[OutOfFocus]

19 hours ago, Sue said:

Really? I'm sure when I checked previously there was an upper age limit for zip car! I will look again!

There may well have been. I am not a lawyer but it sounds like classic discrimination issue. 

Edited May 16 by OutOfFocus

[malumbu]

Calm down everyone as long as you have a license no age limit

https://www.zipcar.com/en-gb/how-it-works/join?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21735659685&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxJvBBhDuARIsAGUgNfjQV8wo7CZNfLHnvLF603rnz38N5RiUjPeLXQJQMrVBOfB5aG1NekUaAh56EALw_wcB

[Sue]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

Calm down everyone as long as you have a license no age limit

https://www.zipcar.com/en-gb/how-it-works/join?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21735659685&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxJvBBhDuARIsAGUgNfjQV8wo7CZNfLHnvLF603rnz38N5RiUjPeLXQJQMrVBOfB5aG1NekUaAh56EALw_wcB

Thanks, I will investigate.

But how does this work if you want to drive out of London and leave the car somewhere else?

And then pick.up another car a few days later to drive home?

[first mate]

I suppose car clubs operate outside of London but it sounds like it requires quite a lot of forward planning. Not sure how helpful if you need to make a last minute journey out of London and are unclear when you will travel back.

[Sue]

Anyway, along with most of the (many)  things I'm presently worrying about, it will all sort itself out one way or another when I find myself doing something about it.

I have to remind myself that I'm not starving in Gaza or being bombed or living in America.

Thanks everyone for your help, all your comments have been very useful, I  have read and  "liked" them all, even if I didn't acknowledge individual posts x

Edited May 17 by Sue

[Sue]

3 hours ago, artictiger8 said:

lucky public transport is great in london but if I need to move or drive for the weekend then just hire van or car from zipcar or profleethire for 1-2 days.

Thanks.

I know that's the most obvious solution, but there are other factors, as mentioned above.

Also, whilst I was relieved to discover from a post above  that Zipcar has no upper age limit, my  daughter has pointed out that modern cars (mine is a 1998 Micra) have features (like no obvious  handbrakes, apparently)  which would be fine if I was buying a new car and could get used to them, but less fine if I am using a hired car occasionally and don't know where anything is or how to use it!

This would probably be no problem  if I was younger, but I am now  nearer eighty than seventy, and apart from dwindling brain cells, I am prone to anxiety, which not being able to locate or use the handbrake on a hill would not help 🤣

For various reasons I have decided to keep the car. I will just have to make fairly frequent long trips to keep the battery charged. 

[Laddy Muck]

Sue, we are in a similar position - though not quite as ancient as you! 🤣

Ours is a 21 year old Honda Civic.  Reliable as hell, IS ULEZ compliant, passes all the tests, MOTS etc.  BUT, as it sits on the drive most of the time, is now as dead as a doornail to the extent that we can no longer open it with the fob, though we are able to open the passenger door only, with the key.  Jump leads didn't work, so hubby bought a "starter" similar to what breakdown companies use.  Nowt.  Hubby then called out the AA who were able to start it via their van.  However, the AA advised leaving the car running for at least an hour and a half.  We decided not to do that as the fumes would be unpleasant for us and our neighbours.  They also informed us that unless we replaced the battery, we would not be able to call them out again.  Long story short, once we turned the engine off it wouldn't re-start.  So, hubby has now bought a trickle charger from Argos (roughly £35 and AA approved).  Apparently it could take up to 100 hours to charge and given that we don't want to leave it charging overnight or in the rain, it will be a while before we will know whether this has solved the issue.  So, watch this space! I am hoping this £35 will be a good investment.

[Sue]

My garage tested the battery and it was indeed  completely dead. I bought another one. With the fitting etc it was extremely expensive.

I now intend to use the car more 🤣

[Laddy Muck]

Ahh shame about the cost of replacing the battery - especially (and I am assuming here) as the car probably isn't worth that much.  I do, however, think your decision is better than scrapping the car. 

I will still update the results of our "experiment" in case this is of interest to others.  I absolutely refuse to scrap an otherwise perfectly good vehicle (especially as ours is ULEZ compliant - despite its age).  Nor am I enamoured with the idea of driving more just to keep the battery going.  If this little £35 gadget does the business then I shall be very happy.  We shall see.........

Enjoy all those extra journeys, though if our gadget works then you might benefit from purchasing one and trickle-charging from time to time to save you having to make them.