Cllr Williams to stand down

[Sephiroth]

You literally just edited your earlier reply to remove the point you made about it being “politicians”.  Then you call me pathetic. 
 

I’m  not trying to say you approve any of the ugly right wing nonsense. 

But I AM Saying your earlier post suggesting  violent rhetoric being “left wing” was one-sided and incorrect 

Edited Sunday at 19:50 by Sephiroth

[HeadNun]

I edited my post because I couldn't be sure we were talking about politicians and I couldn't be bothered to read it all back. But it was off the back of a thread discussing labour councillors, so it went without saying really and I should have left it. 

What I said was 'There's something very aggressive about language like that - it's not big and it's not clever. Some of the angry energy that comes from the far left is pretty self-defeating.' (In relation to a labour councillor rather immaturely, in my view, wearing a jumper that read 'fuck the Tories'). 

But I don't recall saying that "violent rhetoric" is exclusively the domain of the left wing. So I do think you're taking a bit of a bit of leap here. 

[CPR Dave]

On 19/07/2025 at 18:43, Rockets said:

Politicians particularly so....remember it's always party before people!

I doubt McAsh will be in cabinet much longer...he might find even more attempts to kneecap his political career. I wonder if he might have to move to another area and restart - he obviously has political ambition but it seems Southwark is not going to be where it blossoms anymore - unless he can manage some sort of coup.

 

He seemed to me to be fully immersed in the Jeremy Corbyn ethos of the Labour Party. I dint think that (and self describing as a Marxist) would have helped much when Labour was changed under Starmer. There was a purge of people as far left as him that he was lucky to survive once in my opinion.

 

Stuff like this heavy endorsement of Momentum and Corbyn. It doesn't wash with a party that is in actual government.

 

https://labourlist.org/2020/04/forward-momentum-weve-launched-to-change-it-from-the-bottom-up/

Edited 21 hours ago by CPR Dave

[Sue]

3 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

He seemed to me to be fully immersed in the Jeremy Corbyn ethos of the Labour Party. I dint think that (and self describing as a Marxist) would have helped much when Labour was changed under Starmer. There was a purge of people as far left as him that he was lucky to survive once in my opinion.

 

Stuff like this heavy endorsement of Momentum and Corbyn. It doesn't wash with a party that is in actual government.

 

https://labourlist.org/2020/04/forward-momentum-weve-launched-to-change-it-from-the-bottom-up/

The party that is in actual government won't be in it long if it carries on like this.

I don't know how they have the cheek to still call themselves Labour.

[Rockets]

Because Corbyn's hard left version of Labour was totally unelectable and failed spectacularly when faced with an electorate beyond Islington. I know it pains left Labour but traditionally centre-left to centre-right is the sweet spot to win elections.

Glastonbury serenading Corbyn ahead of the 2019 election was not the beginning of the revolution but the sign that it was all over.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by Rockets

[Sue]

10 hours ago, Rockets said:

Because Corbyn's hard left version of Labour was totally unelectable and failed spectacularly when faced with an electorate beyond Islington. I know it pains left Labour but traditionally centre-left to centre-right is the sweet spot to win elections.

Glastonbury serenading Corbyn ahead of the 2019 election was not the beginning of the revolution but the sign that it was all over.

 

If memory serves, Labour under Corbyn got more electoral  votes than Labour under Starmer.

So I'm not sure how you can call that being "unelectable"?

Under a different and fairer electoral system Labour would have won.

I see moves are afoot to bring in such a different, fairer system, presumably in the hopes of stopping Reform winning next time.

BTW there was a mass exodus from Labour  by  the local (East Dulwich) Labour party members when Corbyn was kicked out by Starmer.

It isn't just Islington who doesn't want to support  a right or centre right Labour party.

Edited 3 hours ago by Sue

[Penguin68]

13 minutes ago, Sue said:

BTW there was a mass exodus from Labour  by  the local (East Dulwich) Labour party members when Corbyn was kicked out by Starmer.

It is not Labour Party members who elect Labour governments, as it certainly isn't Conservative Party members who elect Conservative ones. It is all those who are not party members who actually make up the sufficient numbers to elect governments. 

[CPR Dave]

It’s irrelevant to compare Corbyns vote to Starmers. They were two different elections with two different turnouts.

 

The only relevant comparisons for Corbyn are how many people voted for Theresa May and Boris Johnson. A lot more in both instances. As such there would be nothing fair about him winning.

[Sue]

2 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

It is not Labour Party members who elect Labour governments, as it certainly isn't Conservative Party members who elect Conservative ones. It is all those who are not party members who actually make up the sufficient numbers to elect governments. 

I was not suggesting anything else!

 

2 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

It’s irrelevant to compare Corbyns vote to Starmers. They were two different elections with two different turnouts.

 

The only relevant comparisons for Corbyn are how many people voted for Theresa May and Boris Johnson. A lot more in both instances. As such there would be nothing fair about him winning.

I'm not sure how you interpret what I said  as "irrelevant"?

I was responding to a post saying that Corbyn was "unelectable".

My point was that a  large number  of the electorate  voted for him!

[Penguin68]

44 minutes ago, Sue said:

My point was that a  large number  of the electorate  voted for him!

But a larger number, in a more hotly contested election, didn't. It is an anomaly that Starmer won a landslide in seats with a turnout for Labour which would have shamed Labour leaders in all the 21st and much of the post war 20th century.