Lime bikes

[jazzer]

 

[Spartacus]

Interesting look at the injuries caused by electric bikes 

BBC News - E-bike injuries are a massive burden, say surgeons
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2ejgrw9yepo

[Rockets]

41 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Interesting look at the injuries caused by electric bikes 

BBC News - E-bike injuries are a massive burden, say surgeons
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2ejgrw9yepo

As we have been saying for a long time - in lieu of actual data (to satiate the "where is the data" to show this is a problem brigade) it is always casualty departments that see the impact of the problems first and change always starts from there.

It will be interesting to see how the usual suspects try to spin out of this......as we have been saying for a long time there is clearly a problem.

Interesting what one of the surgeons says:

Nick explains that he is a cyclist himself, and it's something he encourages people to do for the benefit of their health.

But, he has real concerns about e-bikes, and says: "What we've noticed with e-bikes is that the speed in which people are coming off is much higher and as a result, the injuries are much worse."

He shows us X-rays of someone who has broken their collarbone.

He explains that with e-bikes, the injuries they're seeing are much more severe, and as such, people are "struggling to get back to normality".

Nick and Jaison both agree it's something they're seeing increasingly more of as time goes by, and they think the industry needs better regulation.

"We should do something about it, I don't think we can let this carry on," Jaison says.

[jazzer]

Lunchtime today, Peckham Park Road. 

Lime bike cyclist turns into Peckham Park road from the Old Kent Road, cycles onto the pavement, comes o a stop and leaves the bile in the middle of the pavement. This is what you're up against, Lime cyclists with no thought for others but themselves, selfish!!!!!!!!!

[malumbu]

I take it that none of you ride Lime bikes or like the concept 

[Rockets]

@malumbu regardless of whether people ride Lime bikes or like the concept do you accept, based on the testimony of front line medical workers from A&E departments in the BBC article, that there may be an increasing trend of, potentially life changing, injuries caused by the weight of said electric bikes?

A yes/no answer will suffice......

[CPR Dave]

I've ridden them before. Took one to Dulwich Village once and couldn't park it. The designated parking bay on Pickwick Road was completely full and I couldn't end the ride. So I had to go back up to Herne Hill. would not recommend lime biking to Dulwich Village.

 

[exdulwicher]

35 minutes ago, Rockets said:

@malumbu regardless of whether people ride Lime bikes or like the concept do you accept, based on the testimony of front line medical workers from A&E departments in the BBC article, that there may be an increasing trend of, potentially life changing, injuries caused by the weight of said electric bikes?

A yes/no answer will suffice......

That's just disingenuous use of statistics.

Fairly obviously, if you have no rental e-bikes, no-one can fall off one. If you then introduce rental e-bikes, people can and will have accidents on them, either falling off themselves via stupidity, drunkeness, road defects etc or from a collision with a vehicle.

Kind of like how there were no road deaths or injuries from cars in 1850 cos cars didn't exist but people managed to make up for that by falling off horses or being run down by horse drawn carriages. 

Talking of statistics, the BBC article doesn't have any stats at all, it's just anecdata and what-iffery. Wonder how many people were in A&E that day after being hit by a car...?

[Rockets]

Ha ha @exdulwicher are you now trying to suggest that surgeons are now part of some anti-cycling lobby group....next our good friend @malumbu will be accusing them of being Reform supporters....

 

As I have been saying for a long time - medics are always the ones who ultimately start the debate when there is a problem and often it leads to change - it happened with e-scooters and now seems to be happening with e-bikes.

 

This is pretty compelling isn't it and look a stat - or is that stat from the surgeons what-iffery as well:

 

Frida is one of 150 such cases to come through this Royal London unit in the past six months.

Surgeon Jaison Patel is seeing more and more cases like this.

"It's a massive burden on our department and I'm sure it's the same across the whole of London," he tells us.

"If we can reduce the number of patients coming in with these sorts of injuries it would be great for the patients obviously, but also takes massive pressure off us in the NHS."

[malumbu]

3 hours ago, Rockets said:

@malumbu regardless of whether people ride Lime bikes or like the concept do you accept, based on the testimony of front line medical workers from A&E departments in the BBC article, that there may be an increasing trend of, potentially life changing, injuries caused by the weight of said electric bikes?

A yes/no answer will suffice......

No I will not give you a simple answer.

Many people are killed and seriously injured each year cycling on the road, but cycling is not banned.  Even more due driving on the road, but driving is not banned.  Sadly pedestrians, too, but walking is not banned 

Society looks at the risks and benefits and decides accordingly.  Hire bikes provide great benefits.  But a number of you just don't like them.  Rather than concentrating on how you could improve things, including cutting the number of casualties.

[Rockets]

10 minutes ago, malumbu said:

No I will not give you a simple answer.

Ha ha, you do surprise me...

11 minutes ago, malumbu said:

But a number of you just don't like them.  Rather than concentrating on how you could improve things, including cutting the number of casualties.

Seemingly surgeons at A&E aren't their biggest fans either.

I would suggest we are trying to improve things - a bit like those surgeons......one of them said:

"We should do something about it, I don't think we can let this carry on," Jaison says.

Powerful words from those on the front line.

 

[malumbu]

 

If it is deemed by the authorities that there is an unjustifiable risk to riders from Lime bikes then they should take action.  Please do lobby government and your elected representatives on this if you feel strongly.

Do you think that hire bikes, including hire ebikes, are a good thing, or that due to the downsides they should be outlawed? 

A simple question.

[Rockets]

There was also a segment on the BBC London News tonight and one surgeon was saying the increased weight of e-bikes was causing maneuversbility issues that were causing more accidents.

2 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Please do lobby government and your elected representatives on this if you feel strongly.

Not sure we need to. Given the surgeons' claim of the burden on the NHS dealing with the issues I very much suspect action will be taken - it happened with e-scooters. Some of us have been saying this for a long time. Some have been too blinkered to notice.

[malumbu]

It's been known for some time that there have been serious collisions involving Lime bike riders.  But in the same light if you were to ban Lime biked you'd ban motorbikes.

I don't really get your point beyond you don't like Lime bikes.  The effort should go into reducing incidents for example through better information, training and traffic management.

[Spartacus]

59 minutes ago, malumbu said:

It's been known for some time that there have been serious collisions involving Lime bike riders.  But in the same light if you were to ban Lime biked you'd ban motorbikes.

Maybe, like motorbikes, e-bike riders should pass a driving test, have insurance and be accountable for their actions. 

 

[David Peckham]

11 hours ago, malumbu said:

concentrating on how you could improve things, including cutting the number of casualties.

 

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Maybe, like motorbikes, e-bike riders should pass a driving test, have insurance and be accountable for their actions. 

 

My understanding is that you must have, at least, a provisional licence to hire an electric scooter and be over 18. 

Surely the easiest thing would be to make those the conditions of hiring a Lime bike? They're heavier and, potentially, more dangerous if you're hit by one.

Wouldn't that add more accountability? If any Highway Code, or other, infractions (including riding drunk & 'Furious Cycling') resulted in points on your licence and/or a fine, I would think most riders would take more care. 

You have to be 18 to hire a Lime bike anyway, so it's not a great leap and they must have a parallel system already in place to register licences for e scooters.

Seems a pretty simple start.

Edited 2 hours ago by David Peckham
Sp

[Earl Aelfheah]

24 minutes ago, David Peckham said:

If any Highway Code, or other, infractions (including riding drunk & 'Furious Cycling') resulted in points on your licence and/or a fine, I would think most riders would take more care.

The police can issue fines to cyclists for offences like careless or dangerous cycling, cycling through a red light, or not having lights and reflectors when required.

Clearly there are people who don't take adequate care and who hurt (primarily) themselves. That said, there are lot of benefits to them too and they're very popular. This week, with the tube strikes, they've really come into there own. 

They're definitely not in the same category as motorbikes, being only pedal assist, and only up to 15.5 mph, so it would be disproportionate to apply the same regulations, but as Malumbu says, there probably does need to be some thought to how you improve safety and encourage better behaviours.

[Rockets]

38 minutes ago, David Peckham said:

You have to be 18 to hire a Lime bike anyway, so it's not a great leap and they must have a parallel system already in place to register licences for e scooters.

And Lime seem to be trying to tighten the rules around this as under-18s have been able to get access to the bikes. Our experience is that Lime and Uber are trying to update their databases and enforce the over-18s only rule a bit more tightly.

[David Peckham]

 

27 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

The police can issue fines to cyclists for offences like careless or dangerous cycling, cycling through a red light, or not having lights and reflectors when required.

Clearly there are people who don't take adequate care and who hurt (primarily) themselves. That said, there are lot of benefits to them too and they're very popular. This week, with the tube strikes, they've really come into there own. 

They're definitely not in the same category as motorbikes, being only pedal assist, and only up to 15.5 mph, so it would be disproportionate to apply the same regulations, but as Malumbu says, there probably does need to be some thought to how you improve safety and encourage better behaviours.

Requiring a provisional licence seems like a very simple start to a complex problem, and one which could be implemented by Lime pretty quickly without recourse to be being dragged through a regulatory process.

I agree with you about equivalence with motorbikes, but I'm not clear on why the rules differ between Lime e-scooters & Lime bikes - they're both limited to 15.5 mph but one requires a licence, one doesn't.

Legally, at the moment riding an e scooter over the limit could result in a similar outcome to driving over the limit, but riding an e bike is a different offence and generally wouldn't. It doesn't seem to add up to me.

23 minutes ago, Rockets said:

And Lime seem to be trying to tighten the rules around this as under-18s have been able to get access to the bikes. Our experience is that Lime and Uber are trying to update their databases and enforce the over-18s only rule a bit more tightly.

That makes sense for various reasons, not least basic profitability.

Lime (and let's be honest, they're going to be the only ones in the market soon) could hugely improve the perception (and the safety) of e-bikes by keeping a far closer eye on the identity and behaviour of their legitimate users and improving the security of the bikes to cut down on illegitimate use.